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Narcissism

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L-F
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Narcissism

Post by L-F »

I detest the label narcissist, I really do. Always have.
Could LO have certain narcissistic traits? Sure.
Could I?  Sure.
Could my parents?  Sure.
My friends? Sure.
Family? Tick.
Probably even you, the reader.

The thing is, you'd have to be a Saint, a monk or a guru if you didn't, and I know many [gurus] online but zero in person.
So that means we're all normal not narcissistic.  That's because we've got an Ego. Transcend that and you're up there with the select few.

So rather than give someone (or self) a self-deprecating deficit position, why aren't we practising [self] compassion?  The very thing we're probably searching for.

Anyway, just my 2 cents worth. At the end of the day, our ego is wanting, needing any/all attention. Not our traits. Are traits not just a mere extension of the ego? The ego's behavioural patterns?

So rather than dragging LO or ourselves down by calling ourselves narcissistic, why not lift ourselves up a notch and just call ourselves human?

God how I love (not in a limerent way) LO's humanness full of compassion and flaws.

May you find the good in others. And when you do, you'll see in good in oneself [a mirror reflection].
@};-
"And in the end, we were all just humans…Drunk on the idea that love, only love, could heal our brokenness." ~ F. Scott Fitzgerald
David
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Re: Narcissism

Post by David »

labels shmabels

I suppose most if not all human behaviour is on a spectrum and they only become problematic when it becomes extreme. Same goes for limerence.

There are some people out there who do exhibit abusive behaviour to others - whether conscious or not. Maybe it helps psychologists to be able to put them into neat categories? Narcissism or whatever else we call it is about ego strokes, power, control, validation, being seen, call it what you want. The more we love ourselves at a soul level the less we need the external validation.
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AMA210
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Re: Narcissism

Post by AMA210 »

I agree that this is just another label that we assign to others based on their behavior.

LO triggered my shadow side, with all of the narcissistic tendencies I had within and which were not within my conscious awareness. I acted a certain way, but I didn't know why. I believe that both of us had these traits and it was very difficult to look into that mirror. I didn't want to even admit that I was just as narcissistic as my LO.

In my FOO, my mother was the one with those traits and I was becoming just like her. If there was no LE, I would be just like her right now. I didn't want to be this way, but it was all I knew growing up, and so, because of all of the transformation that came with the LO, I feel that I was able to break that pattern, or end that karma, and perhaps it was generational.
Never give up! Keep moving forward, no matter what.
mycorona
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Re: Narcissism

Post by mycorona »

Yes, I too hate labels - all of them.
I'm not a psychiatrist/therapist/psychologist. How would I know enough about these mental conditions to say someone is one or the other on a long sliding scale? I can and do see ugly traits in others that seem to overwhelm personalities - in myself also. We all have strengths and weaknesses in our characters and personalities. Yes it is called the ego. But how do we get rid of the ego? Isn't that what makes us human? If the ego dies then what's the point in living this life?

The struggle in this life is everything, I believe..
Me: F
LO: M
Both Married
“Invisible Threads are the Strongest Ties” ― Friedrich Nietzsche
Significant other
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Re: Narcissism

Post by Significant other »

L-F,I I will try to explain it,in my bad english, with my not professional idea of narcissim:
-When we born until we can see ,we feel us and our mother like one only body,we indiscriminate.Primary Narcisissm( Eschizophase,M Klein)all our needs are recovery by our mother.Lacan,in his Mirror Stadium theory,talk about that when we look us in the Mirror in our mothers arms,we pass the escission phase,we see:-The primitive "I" is formed ( but is very dependient and no selffunctionally).- and the Other(Autre) ,imagin.
Later in the Oedipus complex,Lacan explain It with the "metaphorization"*of the Mother Desire (baby-Mother,M({phallus=power,laws,first object of Desire,etc}-baby) in the Inscription of the Fathers Name (forbiden incestus,Mother/Fathers assesination....etc....) that finished with the overpass of the "castration"subphase.Then the " I",the "ideal I",the "Other" (image of the Mother in the Mirror),the Desire (of the other,),the
"Super I",etc....are all formed correctly.The Identification in the genital phase ,as Freud theories....Then we are in front the secondary Narcisissm,if all this fails ,and the "I",take herself as Desire object,and no the Other,like Desire....The narcisisst LOVE ( Desire) only herself.....and not the "Other".....he will never feel really LOVE.....ok?
Significant other
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Re: Narcissism

Post by Significant other »

Another question,in psicholgy,when the "patient",deny or run away ( resistors) from some topics,they have to be addressed in depth, right there is the problem...that must be changed, rebuilt, from the unconscious,imaginary ("real") to the conscious, symbolic, discourse.
JohnDeux
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Re: Narcissism

Post by JohnDeux »

L-F wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 10:08 am
So rather than dragging LO or ourselves down by calling ourselves narcissistic, why not lift ourselves up a notch and just call ourselves human?

Simply follow the sentences in which I use "I" will give you some indication of the extent to which I struggle with this term and condition... don't I? (Okay, you get the point. B-) )

From the Oxford Dictionary defining 'narcissist': "a person who has an excessive interest in or admiration of themselves"

I won't argue that, being born into and raised in Western culture, 'narcissist' possessed derogatory meaning to me.....that derogatory flavoring pervades the vast majority inferences observed in which that term is used. Partially through education and contemplation, I now see the word more as a descriptor that is suggestive of a certain emotional/developmental trajectory. It seems more to me lately that 'narcissist', instead of being a rat-filled sack-cloth with which we continue to flagellate ourselves, it is not much different than saying one is bipolar or has PTSD. It is a condition or set of traits that is at once adaptive for survival (in one environment) as it is debilitating to health and wellness in a different context. In sum, not necessarily something by which we need to drag ourselves down, but rather something we can choose to accept. And I don't mean 'accept' in the sense of (1) "I accept this part of who I am and am not interested or willing to change it...", but rather (2) "I accept this is where I am with my personal developmental trajectory and may try to alter some of what I find distasteful about this trait, that behavior, or these negative or unhealthy thoughts or prejudices". So *if* one takes the above definition from Oxford as a starting point, is "....an excessive interest in or admiration of themselves" something that we should accept in ourselves using my first example of "accept"? I,I,I,I, admit [ b-( ] that I don't have a good answer to this, especially as "excessive" and "admiration" are not clearly defined here and can vary with situational context. Additionally, there likely will be some traits/behaviors that we truly cannot change....it just seems that to fight that fact might be considered truly unhealthy, but this very much is in "to each, his/her/their own" territory.

In the end, you are of course spot on with "....rather than give someone (or self) a self-deprecating deficit position, why aren't we practising [self] compassion?" But given the *cultural* view of narcissistic behavior and how it should be addressed, a tough proposition to be sure.
"Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain...."~ The Wizard of Oz
L-F
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Re: Narcissism

Post by L-F »

Thanks JD! Always one to bring many points to consider to an argument, or in this case, an observation. But but but... rather than look to the Oxford dictionary, what does the soul say?
"And in the end, we were all just humans…Drunk on the idea that love, only love, could heal our brokenness." ~ F. Scott Fitzgerald
JupiterTaco
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Re: Narcissism

Post by JupiterTaco »

I think one thing that always bothered me about the traits of narcissism, sociopathy, psychopathy, etc. The grandiose dreams thing. Who decides what dreams are realistic for everybody? Humans wouldn't have accomplished awesome things without grandiose dreams, that's my take on it...
"You know for a big black guy Cleveland's got a cute little white ass!" Peter, Family Guy
"Um...that wasn't Cleveland," Brian
L-F
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Re: Narcissism

Post by L-F »

JupiterTaco wrote: Sun Jul 04, 2021 10:03 pm I think one thing that always bothered me about the traits of narcissism, sociopathy, psychopathy, etc. The grandiose dreams thing. Who decides what dreams are realistic for everybody? Humans wouldn't have accomplished awesome things without grandiose dreams, that's my take on it...
Does it sound like you are humanizing those traits? Am I correct? Anyway, I agree.
David wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 11:40 am Narcissism or whatever else we call it is about ego strokes, power, control, validation, being seen, call it what you want. The more we love ourselves at a soul level the less we need the external validation.
*nods in agreement
AMA210 wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 1:53 pm I agree that this is just another label that we assign to others based on their behavior.

LO triggered my shadow side, with all of the narcissistic tendencies I had within and which were not within my conscious awareness. I acted a certain way, but I didn't know why. I believe that both of us had these traits and it was very difficult to look into that mirror. I didn't want to even admit that I was just as narcissistic as my LO.

In my FOO, my mother was the one with those traits and I was becoming just like her. If there was no LE, I would be just like her right now. I didn't want to be this way, but it was all I knew growing up, and so, because of all of the transformation that came with the LO, I feel that I was able to break that pattern, or end that karma, and perhaps it was generational.
Isn't it interesting we become what we hope NOT to become? Gosh, I'm currently having to deal with my mother.... *childishly rolls eyeballs* I'll write more on that in my 'Well shit' thread.

Thanks for bumping JT. I had forgotten about this thread.

Awesome description Significant Other!
mycorona wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 3:46 pm Yes, I too hate labels - all of them.
I'm not a psychiatrist/therapist/psychologist. How would I know enough about these mental conditions to say someone is one or the other on a long sliding scale? I can and do see ugly traits in others that seem to overwhelm personalities - in myself also. We all have strengths and weaknesses in our characters and personalities. Yes it is called the ego. But how do we get rid of the ego? Isn't that what makes us human? If the ego dies then what's the point in living this life?

The struggle in this life is everything, I believe..
Great questions mycorona! I'm not sure if the ego needs to die per se, we do need it I'm sure. Take, for example, someone barking orders. They could technically look big-headed, narcissistic even...... "Who do they think they are barking orders like that?". The question is 'why' are they barking orders? I'd doubt they'd answer "so I could sound narcissistic"... Maybe that's the only way they learned to behave in order to be heard in their household? Maybe they are in a warehouse and fearful for boxes falling on a staff members head so repeatedly barks orders to ensure staff safety?

I'm sure there are many examples where someone "looks" narcissistic on the outside yet is completely different when you learn their reasoning.

That's a small example, my point is, often we are too quick to judge and label.
"And in the end, we were all just humans…Drunk on the idea that love, only love, could heal our brokenness." ~ F. Scott Fitzgerald
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