Messed up Marriage

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Ivanhoe
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Re: Messed up Marriage

Post by Ivanhoe »

David wrote: Sun Oct 22, 2017 7:23 pm
AMA210 wrote: Sun Oct 22, 2017 4:39 pm
David wrote: Sun Oct 22, 2017 8:12 am If you were not being distracted by your LO what would you be working on?
Hmmm, if there was no LO, I would be at the same place as before -- which is no realization that anything needs fixing.
What i meant was if you were not getting distracted by thoughts of your LO, what challenges in your life would you be thinking about?
David,
Could you repost the “Limerence Is ... Love is ... Love Isn’t Limerence Isn’t ... “ post you posted a couple of months ago?

I think I need to read it again but can’t find it.
Thanks.
Ivanhoe
65 (feel 50); Male

"Grief makes children of us all. Any intellectual difference is destroyed. The wisest know nothing."
- Emerson
AMA210
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Re: Messed up Marriage

Post by AMA210 »

Ok, thanks for clarifying.

Well, the relationship with my daughter, being a teenager in 6 months, needs work and probably trying to figure out what I am supposed to be doing with the rest of my life.

LE has helped with my daughter already and has defined my reason.
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David
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Re: Messed up Marriage

Post by David »

Ivanhoe wrote: Sun Oct 22, 2017 8:39 pm David,
Could you repost the “Limerence Is ... Love is ... Love Isn’t Limerence Isn’t ... “ post you posted a couple of months ago?

I think I need to read it again but can’t find it.
Thanks.
Ivanhoe
Good to see you back IH

viewtopic.php?f=41&t=859
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AMA210
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Re: Messed up Marriage

Post by AMA210 »

Now that LO is not distracting me from my marriage, DH is having a hard time understanding what is happening to me. I am more honest, more transparent, more authentic in having actual conversations with him and he doesn't like it. Today I asked him why he wants to hear about other people's issues in group and his reply was so that I know that their life sucks more than mine. WOW. Before he left, he said do you love me and I said yes and then he said, "you are just saying that to make me feel better." That is an issue right there. He doesn't believe me.

I told him there are three options here. Accept this "evolution of my soul", don't judge it, go with the flow of it OR hop on the train and try to incorporate some of that OR remain stagnant.

I don't know how this will turn out. I imagine that separation or divorce comes into the equation if one chooses to remain stagnant. It's almost like, along with my own heart and soul that was shattered, the old marriage has been also, and must be built again.

Unfortunately, I am at the stage that LO was at when we met -- the I don't need to wear a wedding ring stage.

This is scary shit.
mamasita
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Re: Messed up Marriage

Post by mamasita »

AMA210 wrote: Tue Jan 23, 2018 4:24 pm Now that LO is not distracting me from my marriage, DH is having a hard time understanding what is happening to me. I am more honest, more transparent, more authentic in having actual conversations with him and he doesn't like it. Today I asked him why he wants to hear about other people's issues in group and his reply was so that I know that their life sucks more than mine. WOW. Before he left, he said do you love me and I said yes and then he said, "you are just saying that to make me feel better." That is an issue right there. He doesn't believe me.

I told him there are three options here. Accept this "evolution of my soul", don't judge it, go with the flow of it OR hop on the train and try to incorporate some of that OR remain stagnant.

I don't know how this will turn out. I imagine that separation or divorce comes into the equation if one chooses to remain stagnant. It's almost like, along with my own heart and soul that was shattered, the old marriage has been also, and must be built again.

Unfortunately, I am at the stage that LO was at when we met -- the I don't need to wear a wedding ring stage.

This is scary shit.
You are right Ama, he doesn't believe you. He feels the distance. He sees your changes. It likely scares him too but he is operating the way he has always operated. Keep pursuing YOU. I also got to the point where I was not "dancing" the same way with DH in the way that we had always danced. I didn't want to anymore. DH was making the same moves and I was just like [-(
My DH STILL asks if I love him, of course I do. But he wanted to know the deeper part of it. "Love" is something we can say, but he wants to know if you FEEL LOVE within FOR him. If you are honest, you don't. You are married and have love FOR him. But is your heart pitter-patter for him? Not at the moment. And that's okay. Keep going in the direction of honesty regardless of his reactions. For me, I tempered all of my conversations with my DH based on what I felt he could or couldn't handle. To avoid discussions or arguments or manipulation, whatever. When the change in me occurred, I could no longer give a d@mn about any of his reactions. On some level, I hoped he would just leave me. But he didn't. He really wanted to hold on, so he came to where I was at. That was really the only way...because I was walking away from control and finding my way to me. Leave, follow, or get out of my way was my mentality. And he felt it. Its good for them ;)
He cannot very well remain stagnant when you are moving away from him....unless he has hope that you alone will hold everything together. I may be projecting a bit but for me...I was DONE holding everything together, holding his hand, wearing kid gloves when dealing with DH.
I spent a lot of time REALLY thinking about what I wanted and needed to be happy. I don't just "go along" in the way that I used to...and THAT changed DH.
AMA210
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Re: Messed up Marriage

Post by AMA210 »

mamasita wrote: Tue Jan 23, 2018 5:05 pm
AMA210 wrote: Tue Jan 23, 2018 4:24 pm Now that LO is not distracting me from my marriage, DH is having a hard time understanding what is happening to me. I am more honest, more transparent, more authentic in having actual conversations with him and he doesn't like it. Today I asked him why he wants to hear about other people's issues in group and his reply was so that I know that their life sucks more than mine. WOW. Before he left, he said do you love me and I said yes and then he said, "you are just saying that to make me feel better." That is an issue right there. He doesn't believe me.

I told him there are three options here. Accept this "evolution of my soul", don't judge it, go with the flow of it OR hop on the train and try to incorporate some of that OR remain stagnant.

I don't know how this will turn out. I imagine that separation or divorce comes into the equation if one chooses to remain stagnant. It's almost like, along with my own heart and soul that was shattered, the old marriage has been also, and must be built again.

Unfortunately, I am at the stage that LO was at when we met -- the I don't need to wear a wedding ring stage.

This is scary shit.
You are right Ama, he doesn't believe you. He feels the distance. He sees your changes. It likely scares him too but he is operating the way he has always operated. Keep pursuing YOU. I also got to the point where I was not "dancing" the same way with DH in the way that we had always danced. I didn't want to anymore. DH was making the same moves and I was just like [-(
My DH STILL asks if I love him, of course I do. But he wanted to know the deeper part of it. "Love" is something we can say, but he wants to know if you FEEL LOVE within FOR him. If you are honest, you don't. You are married and have love FOR him. But is your heart pitter-patter for him? Not at the moment. And that's okay. Keep going in the direction of honesty regardless of his reactions. For me, I tempered all of my conversations with my DH based on what I felt he could or couldn't handle. To avoid discussions or arguments or manipulation, whatever. When the change in me occurred, I could no longer give a d@mn about any of his reactions. On some level, I hoped he would just leave me. But he didn't. He really wanted to hold on, so he came to where I was at. That was really the only way...because I was walking away from control and finding my way to me. Leave, follow, or get out of my way was my mentality. And he felt it. Its good for them ;)
He cannot very well remain stagnant when you are moving away from him....unless he has hope that you alone will hold everything together. I may be projecting a bit but for me...I was DONE holding everything together, holding his hand, wearing kid gloves when dealing with DH.
I spent a lot of time REALLY thinking about what I wanted and needed to be happy. I don't just "go along" in the way that I used to...and THAT changed DH.
Mamasita -- thank you so much for responding. That someone else has been where I am now. :ymhug:
You are right in saying that I don't feel love for him. No pitter patter, no intense desire, no I missed you so much today.
I don't seem to have a problem not using the kid gloves anymore with him. Hell, they came off with LO, and I had no problem saying exactly how it was. I thought about that and said to myself "if you were so authentic, honest and transparent with LO, why can't you be that way with DH?" So I am being that way now.

I also found it interesting that when I told LO about the love thing several times, he didn't doubt me. He believed me. He didn't come back with you don't mean that. He took it at face value and said thanks. That just blows my mind.

When I stand up to DH or call him a bully or whatever, my daughter tends to take his side. She has grown up with me as codependent and now I am different, so she is fighting against me also.

I wouldn't have become aware of any of this if not for limerence.
mamasita
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Re: Messed up Marriage

Post by mamasita »

AMA210 wrote: Tue Jan 23, 2018 6:37 pm
mamasita wrote: Tue Jan 23, 2018 5:05 pm
AMA210 wrote: Tue Jan 23, 2018 4:24 pm Now that LO is not distracting me from my marriage, DH is having a hard time understanding what is happening to me. I am more honest, more transparent, more authentic in having actual conversations with him and he doesn't like it. Today I asked him why he wants to hear about other people's issues in group and his reply was so that I know that their life sucks more than mine. WOW. Before he left, he said do you love me and I said yes and then he said, "you are just saying that to make me feel better." That is an issue right there. He doesn't believe me.

I told him there are three options here. Accept this "evolution of my soul", don't judge it, go with the flow of it OR hop on the train and try to incorporate some of that OR remain stagnant.

I don't know how this will turn out. I imagine that separation or divorce comes into the equation if one chooses to remain stagnant. It's almost like, along with my own heart and soul that was shattered, the old marriage has been also, and must be built again.

Unfortunately, I am at the stage that LO was at when we met -- the I don't need to wear a wedding ring stage.

This is scary shit.
You are right Ama, he doesn't believe you. He feels the distance. He sees your changes. It likely scares him too but he is operating the way he has always operated. Keep pursuing YOU. I also got to the point where I was not "dancing" the same way with DH in the way that we had always danced. I didn't want to anymore. DH was making the same moves and I was just like [-(
My DH STILL asks if I love him, of course I do. But he wanted to know the deeper part of it. "Love" is something we can say, but he wants to know if you FEEL LOVE within FOR him. If you are honest, you don't. You are married and have love FOR him. But is your heart pitter-patter for him? Not at the moment. And that's okay. Keep going in the direction of honesty regardless of his reactions. For me, I tempered all of my conversations with my DH based on what I felt he could or couldn't handle. To avoid discussions or arguments or manipulation, whatever. When the change in me occurred, I could no longer give a d@mn about any of his reactions. On some level, I hoped he would just leave me. But he didn't. He really wanted to hold on, so he came to where I was at. That was really the only way...because I was walking away from control and finding my way to me. Leave, follow, or get out of my way was my mentality. And he felt it. Its good for them ;)
He cannot very well remain stagnant when you are moving away from him....unless he has hope that you alone will hold everything together. I may be projecting a bit but for me...I was DONE holding everything together, holding his hand, wearing kid gloves when dealing with DH.
I spent a lot of time REALLY thinking about what I wanted and needed to be happy. I don't just "go along" in the way that I used to...and THAT changed DH.
Mamasita -- thank you so much for responding. That someone else has been where I am now. :ymhug:
You are right in saying that I don't feel love for him. No pitter patter, no intense desire, no I missed you so much today.
I don't seem to have a problem not using the kid gloves anymore with him. Hell, they came off with LO, and I had no problem saying exactly how it was. I thought about that and said to myself "if you were so authentic, honest and transparent with LO, why can't you be that way with DH?" So I am being that way now.

I also found it interesting that when I told LO about the love thing several times, he didn't doubt me. He believed me. He didn't come back with you don't mean that. He took it at face value and said thanks. That just blows my mind.

When I stand up to DH or call him a bully or whatever, my daughter tends to take his side. She has grown up with me as codependent and now I am different, so she is fighting against me also.

I wouldn't have become aware of any of this if not for limerence.
Keep talking to your daughter. Not about limerence, or her Dad being a bully, but about speaking your truth no matter what. Making yourself whole before you can be expected to be a good spouse or partner. My daughters have also had to deal with the new mom. And when I explain how I feel, they understand. They are supportive. "I want to go to your game but I'm really tired. Today, I'm going to rest." Whereas before I would drag myself to every little thing out of obligation. And my DH had that expectation too of ME. Be everything to EVERYONE. And there I went, running around trying my best, wearing down in the process.
Limerence has been so delicious because it's something just for me. No one can take it, rewrite it, put rules on it, its MINE. But my real problem has been my CURRENT real life. The fantasy helped me feel like life wasn't so bad. But when I force the fantasy to get out of my head, I'm left with bitterness about my family dynamic. I do SO much for ALL of you and you stand there with MORE expectations? The nerve! X( I had to put me first. And my family has had to watch it happen. They didn't always understand. But I am happy to explain. I have needs! (who knew? not even me) And they matter! Sometimes my needs are to be left alone. I wanted the freedom of saying NO. I always had it. But I felt bad for saying it. Keep following that inner voice that says that you deserve to be able to be you despite what other's expectations are. Again, I'm projecting my situation a bit. But I see myself in many of your thoughts and posts.
mamasita
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Re: Messed up Marriage

Post by mamasita »

Oh and another thing. The pitter patter may or may not come back. Pitter patter isn't a marriage requirement. It's nice but after many years, it's not always there. I am just now feeling a glimmer of love for my DH over the past few months, whereas five years ago I truly hated him with all of my soul.
Additionally, your LO was just listening. He didn't dispute because he felt that you were projecting all over him, I'd imagine. He likely didn't and still doesn't understand the intensity of your feelings toward him because logically, they don't make sense. So he politely listened, but more than likely doesn't and won't get it.
He is irrelevant to your healing process anyway...
AMA210
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Re: Messed up Marriage

Post by AMA210 »

Venting post ahead -- DH is so fucking clueless. Our "connection" conversation this evening consisted of him asking me how much my hair appointment will cost tomorrow and how I don't need a color because he can't see no white hair. No comment. Moving on to the expenses for the rest of the month and then some funny lines from a movie. He says he took the garbage out and cleaned the table after supper without me bitching about it. Wow, Nothing real, again. He gets up and on his way out the door he comes up to me and shakes my hand. The next I see, he is slumped in front of that fucking tv, again. Oh wait, he got up now to tell me that he is going to the casino.

Clearly, this is what LO was distracting me from -- and quite honestly, LO wouldn't be any better. Mr. You pissed me off, so I won't talk to you for a month and it's easier to run away and hide from any problems that come up because they aren't my fault anyway."

Sometimes I cannot fathom that I have been married to this man for 26 fucking years. So, this waking up shit couldn't have happened before now -- like ten years ago, five maybe?

Back to working on ME.
[-(
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Re: Messed up Marriage

Post by L-F »

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Last edited by L-F on Tue Oct 22, 2019 10:08 am, edited 1 time in total.
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