Updates on my marriage/LTR

A place to help from being limerent again and how to cope with limerence in future relationships.
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AMA210
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Updates on my marriage/LTR

Post by AMA210 »

Three weeks ago, I gave DH a letter that was 7 pages long, detailing reasons why I want to be divorced. We discussed it and he vowed to change, admitting that he was in a funky depression for the past year, and that my words have been the kick in the ass that he needed.

After several bouts of crying, he said that he would change and be better and "make me love him again." He decided to get a temporary tattoo of a Phoenix, just to see if he would like a permanent one. Recently, he had a meltdown on the golf course, with the child present, and he considers my letter to be an ultimatum. From my experience, he is of "many words, little action". I have learned that actions speak louder than words and have discovered that action is what brings about change, as just thinking about it doesn't move us anywhere.

I know that change takes time.
DH has not made efforts to improve the relationship.
He still favors the tv over me and the communication remains minimal.
I don't have any expectations of him because I have to protect myself from disappointment.
He still stops by his "mommy" after work to get bottles of Mountain Dew and what work needs to be done.
Ridiculous.
He thinks I am the catalyst for his transformation, but I am not.
Discouraging.
Never give up! Keep moving forward, no matter what.
Ivanhoe
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Re: Updates on my marriage/LTR

Post by Ivanhoe »

Are your kids still at home?
65 (feel 50); Male

"Grief makes children of us all. Any intellectual difference is destroyed. The wisest know nothing."
- Emerson
AMA210
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Re: Updates on my marriage/LTR

Post by AMA210 »

We have one daughter at home, age 13, who recently got braces.
There is so much codependency here, it makes me :ymsick:

I didn't have awareness of it before.
My behavior with LO brought it into full realization.

DH plays the victim and says I'm sorry a lot.
Daughter blames everyone, cannot accept any criticism. Negative is perceived as yelling and is projected back.
Both belittle themselves, I'm so fat, I'm so stupid, etc...

I have been trying, without much success, to make them aware of what they are doing.
Both of them would benefit from therapy.
Although, if someone told me two years ago that I was codependent and needed therapy, I would have said I'm fine.
Never give up! Keep moving forward, no matter what.
AMA210
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Re: Updates on my marriage/LTR

Post by AMA210 »

I have realized that there is no give and take in this relationship. It's unbalanced as all hell.

I was thinking of a recent conversation from this morning with DH.
He asked about group therapy (codep) from last night.
I talked about it for 20 minutes, including group size (4), the transparency with it, what it looks like in different situations, etc. His responses were ok, alright and do you talk about me?

Give and take?
Engaged?
One speaks and one responds and then switch.

Struck such a famuliar chord, as with LO. I would speak my mind and I got OK or no response. The letters got no response. Before it was because I was not worth enough to deserve a response. Now it's because he didn't know how to respond and that is not my issue.

No balance here with both DH and LO.
I am standing on my own two feet with both.
It's not acceptable anymore. I deserve better. :ymapplause:
Never give up! Keep moving forward, no matter what.
Acrobatica
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Re: Updates on my marriage/LTR

Post by Acrobatica »

AMA I am following your updates with interest and wishing you luck on your journey.

I think I have similar issues with LO (video games instead of TV - wants me to accept him unconditionally rather than work on things that I have told him repeatedly bother me - mopes around me all the time because I have told him that I am going through some stuff that I have to figure out. I have not disclosed limerence to him - but he knows the details of my relationship with my trapeze partner and the many difficulties I have working with him - also knows that I am upset that he (SO) doesn't value me as an artist but treats it more of a "you go girl with your fun hobby as long as it doesn't interfere with my serious artistic work."

Anyway, I guess what I am thinking is, is it just men? I am surrounded by boys and men. (Two sons, husband, three to four acro partners, work in a male-dominated profession.) I participate in predominately female social groups, predominately male social groups, and mixed. And each one has a completely different feel. Men and women relate differently.

Because I am limerently inclined, I suppose I am always thinking - could I have a more satisfying relationship with someone else? And when I get close to other men, I seem to inevitably go - whoah! that one has even more problems. Perhaps because I have always attracted narcissists (do I send out narcissist pheromones? or do I just put up with things that other people don't? or perhaps narcisstically myself - do I make good arm candy, not necessarily beauty wise - but achievement wise, for narcissists?), the men that I get close to do have a lot of problems. Or perhaps it is just a man woman thing - and at mid-life - when we become especially attuned to the brevity of the time left to us and want to fix everything, we focus on core dissatisfaction in a relationship - which will always have core dissatisfaction - because men and women just relate differently.

Or have we really grown apart? And want different things? And is that the right basis for leaving a relationship?

I have no answers. Just as lost myself. But these are things I think about.
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Re: Updates on my marriage/LTR

Post by Spinnaker »

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Last edited by Spinnaker on Sun Nov 04, 2018 6:36 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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AMA210
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Re: Updates on my marriage/LTR

Post by AMA210 »

@ Spinnaker: "thank you and completely agree with your thoughts.

Perhaps there should be some timeline associated with these changes. Without one, it's unlimited, and we are known procrastinators here.

Your example of 5 years would have our daughter be 18.
I will have to give this more thought. :)
Never give up! Keep moving forward, no matter what.
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Re: Updates on my marriage/LTR

Post by Spinnaker »

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Last edited by Spinnaker on Mon Jun 25, 2018 6:01 am, edited 2 times in total.
“Who looks outside, dreams; who looks inside, awakes.”
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Re: Updates on my marriage/LTR

Post by MrSpock »

Acrobatica wrote: Tue Jun 19, 2018 4:43 pm because men and women just relate differently.
This is no small detail to the extent that the following book should be a mandatory part of high school education:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Men_Are_f ... from_Venus
Acrobatica wrote: Tue Jun 19, 2018 4:43 pm
Or have we really grown apart? And want different things? And is that the right basis for leaving a relationship?
I personally believe that NO, that is not the right basis for leaving a relationship. I wrote a lot about this in many different posts, mostly in response to AMA's updates, so I won't repeat all the arguments here. But I'll outline the general ideas.

My basic rule of thumb is that the only reason to break up is when two people just don't care for each other anymore. Or at least one of them doesn't. Granted, figuring out that this is the case might not be easy. For example, someone watching TV all day cares for you? who knows... that behavior is not the place to read it. It could be a signal of disinterest, but it could be just an addictive and even destructive bad habit. God might work in mysterious ways, but we work in irrational ways, most of the time, so is incredibly imprecise to read out intentions and stances from behavior.

Why is that the only reason? because we're all fucked up. If not pissing each other would be the condition to sustain a LTR, we would all be extinct by now.

And here's something interesting, we actually do usually think that the perfect partner is the one with whom to live happily ever after, as if that were possible. Well, is not.. it would be if we were not humans but perfect defect-less angels.
So, how is that we are not extinct? because evolution rules. As it turns out, we are so unprepared to really understand what it takes to engage with another person, that nature had to invent infatuation. This incredible but powerful brain fabrication involving blind idealization of that other person, uncontrollable desire to physically connect, and the illusion that we need her/him; all of which is vapor-ware crafted so we can procreate.

How do we sustain a LTR then? by understanding what it really involves: learning to share life with another fucked up person. Angles feel free to leave the room and claim you deserve better :). The rest of us, we get what we deserve.

But then, if any LTR is necessarily conflictive because it involves real defective human beings, how, or when, or where are we supposed to be happy? (I also wrote about this in my other posts)

Some might choose to just jump from infatuation to infatuation, secretly knowing that the grass is never really greener on the other side, but feels just like it for a while.
Some other might choose to avoid LTRs if there really is no "happily ever after" in the end.

A problem I see with those alternatives is that getting what we want will only give us pleasure, but never happiness. Happiness comes from loving, and love is to give, not to get.

---

Having said all that, I don't want AMA to think I consider the divorce a mistake. It would be if they really still care for each other, such that it makes the growing process of sharing a life with another person (which is what A LTR ultimately is, a process) worth the pain (which is inevitable in every other growing process), just like, for instance, sharing our lives with a naturally troubled teenager usually is. But I couldn't know that, so it would be a misinformed opinion. I'm merely stating my general views on how things should be IMO.

I do think that Spinnaker advice of turning the "divorce" itself into a process, or rather, putting a sensible deadline into the process of either reconstructing or dropping the marriage, is an excellent idea. In my experience, changes materialize from words into actions when there are clear, nonnegotiable consequences laid down in the concrete future.
AMA210
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Re: Updates on my marriage/LTR

Post by AMA210 »

Spinnaker wrote: Tue Jun 19, 2018 7:14 pm Thank you! I was hoping it wouldn't come across 'holier than thou'. I do admire how open you are to what other people (like meeee :-ss ) would regard as criticism. That's such a nice quality about your personality.

Yes, our youngest will be 18 in just over 3 years and the timeline was based on his high school graduation. I think he is mature enough to handle divorce, but the disruption of change might make him more prone to using poor judgement in his social life. Having him right under my nose and being present and available when he needs me is how I envisioned this phase of his life. Lord knows there is plenty self work yet ahead for me and I believe someone up there :ympray: is guiding me to the right decisions for our future. So, yes, a timeline is probably a good choice regardless of the situation. Limerence took me three solid years to fade... and I was deluded other times thinking I was well and had all my marbles when in hindsight I was in denial-- practically possessed with the illness. :ymalien:
The compliment is appreciated!
Thank you for the honest sharing of your experience to assist in the process of mine. :ymhug:
Never give up! Keep moving forward, no matter what.
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