Limerence and marriage - cause and effect

A place to help from being limerent again and how to cope with limerence in future relationships.
NoDayDreaming

Re: Limerence and marriage - cause and effect

Post by NoDayDreaming »

Acrobatica wrote: Wed Nov 07, 2018 3:48 am The reason I did it, outside of some gentle nudging from this forum, was that I felt ready for divorce. But I truly can’t figure out why I can’t stand to be around H. I felt like if it had something to do with keeping secrets from him, this relationship deserved me trying to figure this out. I was too afraid to hurt him by telling him I had a crush on LO, but leaving him without him fully understanding everything that was going on with me seemed like it would be inflicting a worse, less honest pain. So I told him.

At this point, I can’t say whether I recommend it or not. For most of this week, I wondered if I just gave him more ammunition to hurt me. Now, I just don’t know.
i told my SO about LE early on, because I believed that if I hided it from her it would be cheating indeed and it would have broken the marriage. my wife still took it very hard that surprised me, because as a man, I thought physical cheating was bad, but platonic one, not so much. Apparently, for women, it's the opposite, platonic one is worse than physical "indiscretion." this is why i'm surprised your H took it so hard.
my wife took it hard too and she had a PTSD-like reaction. She didn't come back home for a few nights and that made me jealous indeed. she did come back with a book and we did "therapy" reading it together chapter after chapter. this is the book and I can't recommend it enough for you and your H:
Not "Just Friends": Rebuilding Trust and Recovering Your Sanity After Infidelity by Shirley P. Glass, Ph.D.
JohnDeux
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Re: Limerence and marriage - cause and effect

Post by JohnDeux »

jack wrote: Wed Nov 07, 2018 7:04 pm ......my wife still took it very hard that surprised me, .....
This situation was similar to mine. In fact, as hard as it was to admit my first LE to my SO, I had some vague sense that the admission would bring on questions...."So what are we talking about?....and affair?....have you slept with her?..." etc. But she went ballistic at the thought that my heart had gone elsewhere.....and here I was thinking "Well....at LEAST I didn't consummate these feelings!" It's almost like it wouldn't have mattered one way or the other. Bottom line at that end of that crisis was that SO has NO concept of limerence. For her, she can feel slight romantic rumblings for another, but they stay in a certain place. Were they to boil over (like I suspect most of us feel during an LE), she would have confessed right away and maybe even moved out as a consequence of her feelings which she would have felt were minimally telling her that somethings was very 'not right' about the marriage.
"Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain...."~ The Wizard of Oz
Acrobatica
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Re: Limerence and marriage - cause and effect

Post by Acrobatica »

Thank you all for your responses and continued support. This forum has become such a place of solace for me.

Yes. Mr. Spock. I do think there is something to this concept of resentment. I do resent my husband on a lot of levels. He is home all the time because he has an easy job, yet never does real housework. Yet accuses me of not doing enough housework when I work twice as much as him (and make a lot more money). He takes off whenever he wants to do his art, sometimes for weeks and months at a time, but this does not register as time away from the family. After all this fighting about how I am never home, he left for the past two nights to do projects with friends and stayed out late, but didn’t understand me when I asked how was that any different than me going to a show or rehearsal with my friends. It is as if we are living by two entirely different sets of rules that only benefit him. So I guess I just came up with our next topic of discussion at MC.

And Jack. Thank you for joining just to talk about desirability. Being limerent for a 20 year old with empathy issues can screw with your mind. I actually had a nice flirtatious interaction this weekend which reinforced that at least some people who are not 20 year olds with empathy issues find me desirable. It was a helpful ego boost. Yes, I think self confidence has a lot to do with this. I will definitely check out your book.

And in the midst of all this, I broke NC with LO. He used a picture of us on trapeze to advertise a workshop without giving me any attribution. I have been so good about not stalking that I didn’t even see it. But several friends told me about it. I wrote him a short message to say, he was welcome to use pictures with me, but I expect to be named. The little f-er did not even respond, though I know he got the message. Still pretending like I don’t exist, while using my pictures to advertise himself. Urrrggghh. Unprofessional and ungrateful little sh-t.
Acrobatica
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Re: Limerence and marriage - cause and effect

Post by Acrobatica »

John Deux. Yes. My husband has no concept of limerence. He keeps telling me that he has crushes on people all the time, but they last for a few days or weeks and he puts a stop to them if he needs to work with that person. And he yelled at me several times that I was unfaithful because I “can’t control my feelings.” As if it was a crime to not control your feelings. This came out of me telling him that I have come to the understanding that I can’t control my feelings, and am working on just accepting them as they are, when they are, where they are. But I can control my actions.

We are in two different worlds when it comes to limerence.

Also H told me that no one will ever love me as much as he does. While I should maybe find this sweet and affirming, instead I found it to be threatening and demeaning. I can’t see that clearly and don’t know if my response makes sense. So . . . that.
MrSpock
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Re: Limerence and marriage - cause and effect

Post by MrSpock »

Acrobatica wrote: Wed Nov 07, 2018 7:40 pm So I guess I just came up with our next topic of discussion at MC.
While I never tried this myself, I been wondering if in your very specific case, it wouldn't work to sort out this sort of conflicts, like he feeling entitled to do he very thing he doesn't like you doing, in writing?? For conflict resolution, send each other an email, that each reads and writes in isolation. Then you can present transcripts at MC and let the therapist mediate from it.
Acrobatica wrote: Wed Nov 07, 2018 7:40 pm Also H told me that no one will ever love me as much as he does. While I should maybe find this sweet and affirming, instead I found it to be threatening and demeaning.
That's because is both.

The reason he is telling you that, is to threaten and demean you, which is a natural self-defense reaction. But, the contents of what he is using for it is sweet and affirming.

In this stormy weather, try to see past the dark clouds. That is, past his reaction.
Maddie
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Re: Limerence and marriage - cause and effect

Post by Maddie »

jack wrote: Wed Nov 07, 2018 5:57 pm
Acrobatica wrote: Fri Oct 26, 2018 2:49 am (1) I find the notion of reaching the end of our attractive life, as Celestial Body and Maddie brought up, interesting. (Or as Julia-Louise Dreyfuss put it - our last fuckable day.) I am 46. My hobby/second life is very physical performance. I have never been in better shape. I never thought of myself as a particularly attractive person, but I do more and more now, mostly because of feedback I get. So I wonder how much of everything is about putting some sense of identity there, but knowing it is fleeting.
registered just to respond to this (I previously posted in the open forum only).
you (and Celestial Body and Maddie) are very wrong on this. I would love to meet you ladies in person and provide a free public service and prove you all that you are fuckable alright.
joking aside, me and my SO are older than you (low to mid 50's) and our sex life is as hot and steamy as far as I remember if not more (maybe except for a few months when we met in our early 20's). obviously we try to be healthy, fit, and have a healthy lifestyle. my wife sees geriatric patients and they are sexually active and very happy. don't forget we tend to get happier as we age, except for anxieties of teenage years and possibly a mid life crisis (some people dispute if even real).
I think your problem is insecurity and low self esteem. I was like that too, and recently overcame it and the whole LE was the catalyst for self-improvement. you will get better too, even though it may look impossible now. you are not alone.
Damn, Jack. Ok. Thanks for your vote of confidence. ;) :)) A free public service...that's hilarious!

That's good news that we become happier as we age, pending circumstance, choices etc. I'd love to be able to transfer this passion from LO to SO. It's working a bit. Thankfully!! And yes, insecurity is the problem! LE has motivated better self-care for sure. I just look at girls/women in their 20s now, and think, they look so young! Where did the time go??
I hope you live a life you’re proud of, and if you’re not, I hope you have the courage to start all over again.

F. Scott Fitzgerald
Acrobatica
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Re: Limerence and marriage - cause and effect

Post by Acrobatica »

I wanted to bump up this thread to update.

1 year later. I am divorced. And a lot happier. More free. And I have a far better more loving relationship with my kids.

I know now that the reason my husband disgusted me was that he was emotionally and verbally abusive for our entire marriage. He gaslighted me by literally moving and hiding my things. He constantly told me he was worried about my mental health and called my siblings and father to tell them he believed I was mentally ill. He lied constantly about things big and small. He also lacked empathy. I can see clearly now what I hid from myself. It also helps that every single interaction I have had with him since I left (and for at least a year before that) has been a textbook controlling or abusive interaction. It’s almost like he is reading the same articles I am about narcissism, gaslighting, and manipulative behavior and using them as an operator’s manual.

And I am now learning from several friends that many people believed that he was having an affair during the last several years of our marriage with his young artistic partner. I have no evidence. I have no interest in spending time figuring it out. But, I am only now hearing that the rumors were rampant. But, for so many reasons, it feels true. H spent all of marriage counseling blaming me for all issues in the marriage, never made an ounce of effort to make things better between us, and readily agreed to divorce, as long as it was my fault.

Those feelings of disgust and fear were absolutely warranted.

I do feel like I have walked out of a fog. Not a limerence fog, but a life fog, and can see myself more clearly for the first time. I can also see others more clearly. And feel and experience interactions with others more deeply. And feel that interactions with certain people are actually painful and are better off avoided. And interactions with others are joyful. And interactions with many are pleasant and kind. And my gut is a useful indicator that can be trusted. And I am learning to trust it.
Maddie
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Re: Limerence and marriage - cause and effect

Post by Maddie »

Acro, that's huge growth! the description of coming out of the fog sounds wonderful!

I've been thinking a lot lately about my marital dissatisfaction and limerence. I think one contributed to the other and vice versa. It dawned on me last night that I can't go running to LO for many reasons. He didn't cause all my problems and he sure as hell isn't the solution.
I hope you live a life you’re proud of, and if you’re not, I hope you have the courage to start all over again.

F. Scott Fitzgerald
Acrobatica
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Re: Limerence and marriage - cause and effect

Post by Acrobatica »

Maddie.

I think limerence is a wake up call that there is something off in our primary relationships.

I am not advocating Divorce For All!! Whooppee! But part of me does feel this way a bit. For myself, I stayed far too long in a deeply unsatisfying unhappy relationship because . . . (1) I didn’t know what a loving kind honest relationship looked like. I had no models. (2) For the kids.

I kind of do want to scream out at this point to any person who advocates staying together for the sake of the kids to go fuck themselves. Being raised in an unhappy environment is NOT good for children. Being raised in an environment where one parent is abusive and the other parent appeases is even WORSE for children.

Leaving was the hardest thing I have ever done. And my ex refused to leave the house, so I left. Ex is playing custody games, parental alienation ploys, and fucks with my mind any chance he can get. (So many things, but latest one is he left me off the high school registration papers for our son, so when I tried to pick him up from school, the school would not let me in the building. He claimed leaving the mother space blank on the forms was an accident).

But I now have a relationship with my kids again. One that is not marred by him corralling the kids into making fun of me, or speaking for them, or speaking for me, or interference. And while it is not perfect, it is so much better than it was. So staying together for the sake of the kids is a terrible idea, no matter what that fucker on YouTube says.

That being said, I tried hard to save that relationship. We did marriage counseling for 6 months. I explored every avenue and tried every method for making that relationship work before deciding to leave. And that was because I wanted my kids to be in a happy two parent loving home. But they weren’t in a happy loving home. And finally recognizing that I could not unilaterally create a happy loving relationship was why I left.

We can only be responsible for ourselves. We can’t fix SOs. We can’t fix LOs. We can work to fix ourselves and become the best model we can be for our kids.
L-F
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Re: Limerence and marriage - cause and effect

Post by L-F »

Acrobatica wrote: Sat Oct 19, 2019 2:25 am Being raised in an unhappy environment is NOT good for children. Being raised in an environment where one parent is abusive and the other parent appeases is even WORSE for children.
No it's not good for the children. I'm so glad my parents got divorced or he'd be constantly cheating on her and bashing her head into walls, and doors, etc, while the kids (me and sibs) watched. Abuse comes in many forms and emotional abuse is sometimes silent such as neglect, etc. David has some good threads on the topic with clips from Daniel Mackler.

Good that you're away from the abuse. I'd never advocate for anyone, male or female, to stay in an abusive relationship. I've always said get out and get help, do anything to escape the abuse. That stuff sticks to children like glue.
"LF, why do you weep for the inner child of your abusers?"
"Because I'm not like them."
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