This forum is NOT a Safe Place.

[JohnDeux]

It's tough conundrum I feel that Acro brings up. There are of course many variations and depths of past wounding as well as approaches that are offered as helping. Compassion is huge, no doubt ...... and likely needed in extended doses for many who are smarting from years of abuse, narcissistic or otherwise. Strangely enough, one of the most helpful individuals for my own recovery, in additional to David's assistance, was on the prior "Limerence Experienced' forum some years back. The poster was straight up and didn't even give advice. He simply drew your own innards inside out with his questioning that you were supposed to put to yourself. It was the right "recipe" for me....both no-nonsense and at the same inducing a profound sense of shame and worthlessness. Again, each has their own make-up and the kinds of things they will respond to, but his was just right because the induction of shame and worthlessness were induced in a way that allowed me to look at their origins squarely. This was unlike the shame and worthlessness induced by my parents because that was too enmeshed with emotions of "How dare you!...." for me to address those feelings as they finally needed to be addressed. Anyway, that just expresses how each has a different path towards their healing. So I just leave the possibility here of some additional thought and pondering for how those with much more raw and unhealed wounding might avoid getting re-traumatized by something for which they were unprepared. Does anyone have experience with "group" (even as a forum is not really the same thing) in which more sensitive members are somehow eased into situations in which they might feel attacked by other members of that therapy session? Just typing out loud as I have no good answer or solution to the issue.

[MrSpock]

Anyway, that just expresses how each has a different path towards their healing.

Indeed, and I think that might be a big part of the problem here.
Some people, like me for example, are pretty immune to external criticism. It would be quite shocking if anything anyone could post here manages to trigger me. But, as it turns out, being like that can be, and has been in my case, quite a problem to others. That's because I would anticipate, even perhaps expect, your reaction to what I'm telling you, to be just as "un-offended" as mine will be.

Fortunately, however, my wife is the absolute opposite. She can go as far as asking me what happened with, say, a document on a PC, and if I ask, just ask, if could it be that she deleted it, then there would a storm.
So, over the (many) years, I learned that even if it is true that one is not ultimately responsible for the way others respond, that doesn't at all mean that one doesn't have to be as much careful and considerate as possible, even more so if one knows what can happen and the damage that can be inflicted, even if one could argue that it "shouldn't" be the case.
The sensibility of others, which is always due to their own traumas and not "simply their fault", must be always taken into account. And when that is quite different to our own, we might not see the damage we are inflicting.

[L-F]

I would ask you kindly, are you the authority here who decides what this forum is for and what it's not?

Ahh so this is the issue. I was waiting for this to surface. As well as the desire to 'fix' the forum. Like David said, you can't, you can only fix yourself.
Check out his amazing threads on the subject and you'll see its about taking responsibility for SELF. OOTF forum is a brilliant site for looking outwards, this is a brilliant site for looking inwards. I personally like to take a balanced view, both sites are equally important.

Just because I dont rescue doesn't mean I don't have empathy. I do. It's a long and painful journey. All the best to everyone while on this path.

[Maddie]

Acro, I hate to see you go. You have shared such valuable insights and have helped to make me feel not so alone in this painful journey. Many have traveled on before you largely due to the same reason. Just take a glance at the old thread "Hello Again. " It was both enlightening (as to what I perceive as a big problem) and frustrating. Basically, a long term member comes back to share her wisdom and is harrassed. Sad. She's not been back.

But some ppl insist on being in an authority role that are not authority. And that BS is co-signed by people I do respect. Which is the greater travesty. That's what irks me...my beef, in other words. And saying you'd be better off on such and such forum, like...no one needs a referral. Rude.

That's all from me on that subject.

Much love to you, Acro.

[L-F]

And saying you'd be better off on such and such forum, like...no one needs a referral. Rude.

Actually, its really really important OOTF is brought up as a subject because it specializes in NARCISSISTIC behavior. This forum specializes in LIMERENCE. A huge difference. And its important to point out these differences. You don't go to a butchers to buy bread but you still gotta eat, right? Pointing out the difference is VITAL to a persons wellbeing. I personally do NOT want to see someone egging someone else on to disclose information that they later might regret.

The bottom line is, it's no secret Acro has an issue with me yet is too afraid to approach me about it in private WITHOUT personalizing and demonizing me in public. I stopped that behaviour ages ago thanks to this forum helping me to grow up.

Here is something David posted which may help some readers to understand the difference between the two sites:
"Why do we get limerence / love addiction?
People generally become love addicts due to a past history of abandonment from their primary caregivers. Adult love addicts usually recognized as children that their most precious needs for validation, love and connection with one or both parents were not met. This affects their self-esteem dramatically in adult life. It results in a fear of abandonment and an underlying fear of intimacy. To a love addict, intensity in a relationship is often mistaken for intimacy.

Building healthier relationships and finding ourselves.
With time, many of the members on the forum here come to realise that limerence is all about them. Their object of desire was just a catalyst. As the saying goes, when we are ready, the teacher will appear. When we have moved beyond the obsessive addictive energy, we realise we are the one with the issues and that we are the ones that have to do the heavy lifting to heal ourselves. The reality is there is no magical other. We are the ones that have to learn how to fill that hole in our soul. With time, we desire moving to healthier more conscious relationships, with ourselves and others"
https://www.limerence.net/


"Out of the FOG was launched in 2007 to provide information and support to the family members and loved-ones of individuals who suffer from a personality disorder.

Dealing with a loved-one or family member who suffers from a personality disorder can sometimes feel like navigating through a fog. FOG stands for Fear, Obligation, Guilt - feelings which often result from being in a relationship with a person who suffers from a Personality Disorder. The FOG acronym was coined by Susan Forward & Donna Frazier in their book Emotional Blackmail. It is our hope that this site may help some navigate out of the FOG in their own lives." https://outofthefog.website/who-we-are


There are fundamental differences between the sites. I've long recognized certain individuals being offended with the term 'heavy lifting' and 'looking at one's own behavior'. I can't help that. Perhaps David can.

[Maddie]

I see what you mean.

[Cookie]

I would ask you kindly, are you the authority here who decides what this forum is for and what it's not?

Ahh so this is the issue. I was waiting for this to surface. As well as the desire to 'fix' the forum. Like David said, you can't, you can only fix yourself.
Check out his amazing threads on the subject and you'll see its about taking responsibility for SELF. OOTF forum is a brilliant site for looking outwards, this is a brilliant site for looking inwards. I personally like to take a balanced view, both sites are equally important.

Just because I dont rescue doesn't mean I don't have empathy. I do. It's a long and painful journey. All the best to everyone while on this path.

I understand, but that wasn’t really my angle. You’ve said this forum is for this and that, but not this. Why are YOU feeling that you’re in a position to set some tone of acceptability? Are you familiar with “theory of mind”? No one arrives here with the previous self-insight to already acknowledge that the issue is them, and there’s no crash course for that.

To your point, you may want to look within.

[L-F]

you may want to look within.

Good point. I'm glad the message is finally getting across.

[Acrobatica]

This is what L-F wrote to me when I wrote to a new member that she may want to trust her instincts that her LO was demonstrating clear narcissistic behavior patterns.

Acro - Well I know a 45 year old married woman throwing herself at a 24year old young man, using tears (emotional manipulation) to try and get him to love her IS abuse. More so when he said he couldn't AND had a girlfriend.

If someone of that age did that to my son I'd go to her and tell her to grow up, and I'd certainly feel like, although I wouldn't, punching her in the face.

Plus, they are David's theories, who happens to be a Licensed Psychotherapist and not some psychology pop-culture believer.

This is a corruption of the story I told on here.

And Mr. Spock, I don’t believe a person is “overly sensitive” to being hurt by a highly personal attack. I believe it is quite human to be hurt when someone lashes out. Especially when they combine personal information with lies to assault your character.

There is no narcissist free zone in life. There is absolutely no reason to ban it from being spoken of here. Especially when it is at the heart of so much of our pain.

If someone purposefully slaps me, as L-F figuratively did with the post I quoted above, there is no reason for me to look inward to see why I feel pain. The cause it quite clear.

[Acrobatica]

And David. I am formally lodging a complaint against L-F based on that post.

I am happy to also do that privately if that is the protocol.