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Death Blow

A place for those new to this site. The more experienced users of this site tend to frequent the members only section more.
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Zsababy
Posts: 543
Joined: Fri Jan 07, 2022 8:15 am
United States of America

Re: Death Blow

Post by Zsababy »

Look like a potato! 😂😂😂

Yes, I agree with StillWonky. The thinking there is very black & white, which is something that's address in Cognitive Behavioral Therapy. It's not necessarily going to cure your limerance, but it will help with extremes of thinking that are making your life worse.

It's hard to get anywhere if you think that being with her is the only path to happiness (classic limerant thinking, btw--the very crux of the problem), even if consciously you know this isn't true. I journal not just to get outy thoughts but to reprogram myself with new ones & I have to reality check myself all the time, like "it's just a fantasy, he will never go out with you, it's impossible etc".
NickMarone
Posts: 42
Joined: Fri Nov 18, 2022 8:30 pm
Canada

Re: Death Blow

Post by NickMarone »

Zsababy wrote: Sat Mar 25, 2023 2:03 am Do you have a therapist? Do you keep a journal? I use my phone to just occasionally write out my thoughts & also messages to myself about staying grounded. I remind myself not to get carried away with fantasies.

Your depression & limerance may very well be driven by early trauma. Anything you can do to help that, maybe get massages or hot tub sessions to soothe your body.
I have been seeing psychiatrists since the age of six. I have lifelong, chronic depression. So I have been in constant therapy. I'm currently on a cocktail of stimulants/antipsychotics/Prozac/tranquilizers to combat the depression. I've added NAC supplements. Overall, my meds are working quite well. But I I'm still quite depressed but better than other periods in my life.

I don't journal but I'm I've read every book on depression and related mental health problems. And now limerence. I was functioning OK but this latest LE has thrust me back into "tilt" territory. I really can't deal with it on top of my "regular" issues. I'm also super sensitive to rejection and that ties to the pain of unrequited love and limerence.

Through therapy, I've gone through my childhood over and over. I did have a major life and death medical issue when I was 11 that lasted a few months. So, that may be the source of the trauma, in that I've never really gotten over that incident.

But mostly I've learned my depression is very biological and genetic in nature. I am constantly grabbing on to various short term "distractions" (hits of dopamine) to ease and escape my emotional pain. Often, these have long term life damaging consequences in the long term (gambling, limerence, a bunch of others) that in the end make me feel worse. My depression literally negatively affects every single aspect of my life (career, relationships, self-esteem, mood, spirituality).

One hack I've come up with is super cold jacuzzi sessions. Basically, fill it will cold water and some ice and just jump in. It's hell for about 45 seconds then all kinds of nice endorphins start coming in and it is surprising soothing. It's not going to solve my problems on a permanent basis, but it is a good short term fix.

Nick
Last edited by NickMarone on Fri Mar 31, 2023 11:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Some people claim that there's a woman to blame, but I think it's my own damn fault.
NickMarone
Posts: 42
Joined: Fri Nov 18, 2022 8:30 pm
Canada

Re: Death Blow

Post by NickMarone »

StillWonky wrote: Sat Mar 25, 2023 3:42 pm Sorry, I know this thread started ages ago and I'm late to the party so feel free to ignore if my input is out of date.
It's like God/Universe is testing me for some reason.
I'd go with this. I'm of the opinion that there is meaning in these limerent experiences and they come for a reason. Whether it's God, or the Universe, or a better part of ourselves trying to force us into facing things, I generally feel we're put through difficulties like this to heal and grow. You say everything was going well in your job was going well and then this happened. Sorry if I'm misunderstanding, but I've taken it that you don't see the rest of your life was going well? Maybe you were using the job going ok as an excuse to just coast along? Sometime it helps for everything to fall apart for us to face things. I sometimes wonder if limerence isn't some weird first step to self love.

If your life isn't perfect like hers it's a disaster kind of thing. I think I'd feel quite sad and hopeless too if I had that mindset. I'm sure there are ways to find your way to a more middle path.

Uh, I wouldn't underestimate the damage an "anxious and overprotective" mother can do. I have one myself. Of course they affect different people differently so I wouldn't presume to say your reactions were the same as mine. But they can instill a nagging sense in you that you aren't capable of properly taking care of yourself, especially if they keep "worrying" about you through adulthood. Though it may be presented as that they just care too much, they can unintentionally keep you in a bit of an arrested development stage so they can feel that you still need them. Anxious mothers generally aren't very good as processing their own emotions so can't show their kids how to. Just some examples of how they can affect you. The teacher and LO seem very different to your mother in that regard - is there something in that?
Well, I'm quite through with learning hard life lessons! Enough already! Just kidding. I was coasting a bit and finally felt a little comfortable at my job. We had a major restructuring and for two years I felt that every day I was going to come to work and get fired. It made for a stressful existence. But I sort of made the cut and was starting to be content and accepting of my work situation (a lot of my friends lost their jobs). It just seems like such a bad time for my first LE in years. I had finally achieved a bit of tranquility only to be driven to the insanity of a LE, literally weeks after the work transition ended. I actually had taken steps to cut women out of my life and was resigned but at least peaceful as a single person. Kind of ironic, I guess.

You're very correct on the anxious mother thing. That sounds very accurate to me. I'm definitely in a state of arrested development. I've got issues in that area for sure. The teacher I was limerent on as a youngster and subsequent limerent episodes (including current) probably are all related but I'm just a mess trying to tie things together cohesively.

I am truly without hope. I know that's the disease of depression but it is actually how I feel. I'm also very guilty of all-or-nothing/extreme mindset. I don't know how to combat that, either. It is just I can't think or intellectualize myself into feeling decent and worthy and good.

Nick
Some people claim that there's a woman to blame, but I think it's my own damn fault.
Zsababy
Posts: 543
Joined: Fri Jan 07, 2022 8:15 am
United States of America

Re: Death Blow

Post by Zsababy »

I think that's where journaling to reprogram yourself comes in. Like "I can live without her" "My life can be fulfilling without her." "I can find things that give me joy in life".. etc. So instead of just reading the past, you're reprogramming yourself. There is something about writing these things out repeatedly that makes them stick in your head. I too had an anxious mother who felt the need to try to help me with everything. She once showed me how to fold a piece of paper in half when I was in my 20s. We were doing a craft project and she literally showed me like I had massive brain damage or something. I did grow up with a lack of confidence in my abilities.

I would ask your therapist about Cognitive Behavioral Therapy. There's also a book called "Feeling Good" by David Burns (IIRC) that explains the method. I'm sure you can get it on Amazon or Alibris for cheap.
Zsababy
Posts: 543
Joined: Fri Jan 07, 2022 8:15 am
United States of America

Re: Death Blow

Post by Zsababy »

I meant "rehashing the past"
Zsababy
Posts: 543
Joined: Fri Jan 07, 2022 8:15 am
United States of America

Re: Death Blow

Post by Zsababy »

Other affirmations could be about your self-esteem issue, like "I am a worthwhile and good person." "I deserve a satisfying, loving relationship" and then list some positive qualities, no matter how small.
Good luck to you!
I had crippling bipolar depression for my early part of life & things can get better
StillWonky
Posts: 16
Joined: Wed Mar 22, 2023 7:48 pm
Great Britain

Re: Death Blow

Post by StillWonky »

Well, I'm quite through with learning hard life lessons! Enough already! Just kidding.
Ha, I hear you, but...bad news, they're gonna keep coming! I think that's just how life works. Try reframing it as a new adventure. :D

Your situation reminded me of a post on here years back from JohnDeux about locus of control. It was about where people thought they were on the sliding scale of how much control they feel they have in their life. It was about whether you place the control of your life niside of you or externally, in other people and situations. People who mostly place control outside of themselves can feel really helpless and hopeless.

It just seems like you've placed so much control of your life outside of you. Your job future was hanging in limbo while you waited (two years?!) to find out from your employers if they were keeping you. You believe your limerence and depression are a genetic chemical thing, so the power to cure it is really in the hands of doctors, therapists or pharmaceutical companies. Whether or not you are attractive to anyone in the human race has been placed in the hands of your LO. I'm not surprised you feel hopeless. And I'm not surprised you felt attracted to a teacher in control of a class, and a woman you said has huge amounts of control over her life and even other men. It just sounds like you want to take control over your life back.
I can't think or intellectualize myself into feeling decent and worthy and good.
Exactly. Intellectualising is rarely a good solution to anything, in my opinion! It sounds more like you need to get in touch with your feelings and instincts and learn how to trust yourself better. I'll say it again, anxious mothers can place a sense of self-mistrust in their children. You say you have the emotional IQ of a snail but I get the sense there's another you underneath who does have a lot of emotional sense. Like when you said about trying to use anger at LO to get out of the limbo state. This may be terrible advice(?!) but I do think that healthy anger can be used to get out of very low helpless emotional states. I've read (whether it's true or not I don't know, but it sounds right) that depression can have it's root in surpressed anger. It may be that you are angry at something, not LO, but something else, that you need to get in touch with?

I experienced that helpless hopeless state myself for years,and still struggle with it so I resonated on some level with your post, which is why I've written so much. Just saying, it's definitely possible to move out of that state. I feel like you already know that, because while you might say you feel hopeless and it's written in your genetic code, there is a better part of you taking care of you that has brought you to places like this, because you feel there is something you can do.

Of course there are plenty of things in life we have no control over but you have way more control than you seem to think you do. For me, I wrote lists of situations in which I felt helpless and took little steps towards changing the situations, to prove I wasn't as helpless as I thought. I also had to train myself to get back in touch with my emotions. For example, I'd go through a day giving everything marks out of 10 on how good I felt in my body (and soul?) after doing a thing. Like, every tiny thing, hoovering, paying a bill, taking to a family member, etc etc. The results were kind of surprising and I had been doing a lot of things I didn't enjoy because I had a belief system that these were supposed to be good for me. I'd make notes of all the things I did that got high scores and would use them to make me feel better when I was feeling really down. And I'd cut down on the stuff that made me feel bad. Again, it reinforces the idea that you can have some control over how you feel, and consequently trust yourself better.
NickMarone
Posts: 42
Joined: Fri Nov 18, 2022 8:30 pm
Canada

Re: Death Blow

Post by NickMarone »

StillWonky wrote: Sat Apr 01, 2023 7:25 pm
It just seems like you've placed so much control of your life outside of you. Your job future was hanging in limbo while you waited (two years?!) to find out from your employers if they were keeping you. You believe your limerence and depression are a genetic chemical thing, so the power to cure it is really in the hands of doctors, therapists or pharmaceutical companies. Whether or not you are attractive to anyone in the human race has been placed in the hands of your LO. I'm not surprised you feel hopeless. And I'm not surprised you felt attracted to a teacher in control of a class, and a woman you said has huge amounts of control over her life and even other men. It just sounds like you want to take control over your life back.
I can't think or intellectualize myself into feeling decent and worthy and good.
Exactly. Intellectualising is rarely a good solution to anything, in my opinion! It sounds more like you need to get in touch with your feelings and instincts and learn how to trust yourself better. I'll say it again, anxious mothers can place a sense of self-mistrust in their children. You say you have the emotional IQ of a snail but I get the sense there's another you underneath who does have a lot of emotional sense. Like when you said about trying to use anger at LO to get out of the limbo state. This may be terrible advice(?!) but I do think that healthy anger can be used to get out of very low helpless emotional states. I've read (whether it's true or not I don't know, but it sounds right) that depression can have it's root in surpressed anger. It may be that you are angry at something, not LO, but something else, that you need to get in touch with?

I experienced that helpless hopeless state myself for years,and still struggle with it so I resonated on some level with your post, which is why I've written so much. Just saying, it's definitely possible to move out of that state. I feel like you already know that, because while you might say you feel hopeless and it's written in your genetic code, there is a better part of you taking care of you that has brought you to places like this, because you feel there is something you can do.

Of course there are plenty of things in life we have no control over but you have way more control than you seem to think you do. For me, I wrote lists of situations in which I felt helpless and took little steps towards changing the situations, to prove I wasn't as helpless as I thought. I also had to train myself to get back in touch with my emotions. For example, I'd go through a day giving everything marks out of 10 on how good I felt in my body (and soul?) after doing a thing. Like, every tiny thing, hoovering, paying a bill, taking to a family member, etc etc. The results were kind of surprising and I had been doing a lot of things I didn't enjoy because I had a belief system that these were supposed to be good for me. I'd make notes of all the things I did that got high scores and would use them to make me feel better when I was feeling really down. And I'd cut down on the stuff that made me feel bad. Again, it reinforces the idea that you can have some control over how you feel, and consequently trust yourself better.
I have tried CBT over and over again. I've read and worked the book by Burns at least four times through. It doesn't stick. By challenging my thoughts, I can definitely see logically how unrealistic and incorrect they mostly are. But that intellectual knowledge just doesn't cut through the depression and resonate if I'm in a negative feeling state. If I'm feeling OK, it all makes sense. But I'll look at something I wrote when feeling OK and it literally doesn't make sense to me when I'm feeling down and depressed. It is like my emotional state is the starting point. Emotions always trump reason for me. It's inescapable.

I think that's the genetic component. If I get enough sleep, good diet, exercise and meds and am lucky enough to feel decent, then I can make progress with CBT. But it's futile to try it if I'm feeling bad, though. Almost counterproductive. The chicken and the egg thing. Except for me, it is my initial state that determines everything. I can deal with bad thoughts if I'm in a good mood. However, every thought is negative when I'm in a despondent place. It's almost purely physiological.

And man, the LE is not helping. It is too rollercoastery (not a word) for someone like me who is vacillating between feeling OK and suicidal on an hourly basis. Not to mention that I see my LO and have to work with her closely and alone at least 8-10 hours a week. I don't have the emotional stability to handle that.

I do think there is catharsis in just typing out my feelings on this board. There's value in that for me. Thanks for listening.

Nick
Some people claim that there's a woman to blame, but I think it's my own damn fault.
NickMarone
Posts: 42
Joined: Fri Nov 18, 2022 8:30 pm
Canada

Re: Death Blow

Post by NickMarone »

I’m having a hell day. I’m working with my LO and she’s all happy and giddy about being pregnant. That’s hard enough to take if I wasn’t limerent for her. But it is pretty much torture today as it is just an extremely painful reminder of:

How I’ll never be with her.

How great her life is compared to my pathetic one.

How much I love being with her anyway.

That my life has passed me by.

How little she cares about me. Not that she should…

How envious I am of her SO.

How little I feel like doing anything or living for that matter.

How inconsequential everything else is.

What a loser I am.

That she is 20 years younger than me.

I wish I could think of or say anything remotely positive but right now I can’t. Can anyone?

Nick
Some people claim that there's a woman to blame, but I think it's my own damn fault.
L-F
Posts: 4500
Joined: Fri Sep 29, 2017 9:55 am
United States of America

Re: Death Blow

Post by L-F »

NickMarone wrote: Tue Apr 04, 2023 11:31 pm I wish I could think of or say anything remotely positive but right now I can’t. Can anyone?
Yes, but would it make a difference?
At least you are sharing your thoughts here which I hope helps, even if just a little.

Btw, I highly doubt you are a loser. Have you listed all the great opportunities that have come your way and your accomplishments?
Bought a house?
Cared for a sick child?
Made someone smile?
Worn something tailored or expensive or something that made you feel great?
Seen the sunrise?
Been to a beach while the sunset?
Smelt freshly mowed grass or just after it has rained? Whether you liked the smell or not, have you noticed it?
Opened a door for a lady?
Give up your seat for someone?
Saved a worm from the hot scolding pavement?

All these seemingly small things are worth noting. Human acts of kindness never go astray. Nor does noticing and connecting with nature. I'm sure you and everyone reading could write a book on all the good stuff.
"And in the end, we were all just humans…Drunk on the idea that love, only love, could heal our brokenness." ~ F. Scott Fitzgerald
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