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Narcissism in LE?

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L-F
Posts: 4500
Joined: Fri Sep 29, 2017 9:55 am
United States of America

Re: Narcissism in LE?

Post by L-F »

I don't understand this part. Zsababy could you please expand on the connection of vulnerability, insecurity and narcissism?
Zsababy wrote: Sun May 14, 2023 9:54 pm I'd say I have a bit of vulnerable narcissism in terms of insecurity and sensitivity to criticism. I can take correction at work but it internally sends me into a bit of a shame spiral.
"And in the end, we were all just humans…Drunk on the idea that love, only love, could heal our brokenness." ~ F. Scott Fitzgerald
L-F
Posts: 4500
Joined: Fri Sep 29, 2017 9:55 am
United States of America

Re: Narcissism in LE?

Post by L-F »

L-F wrote: Mon May 15, 2023 11:15 pm It hurts when you realize past mistakes.
A true narcissist wouldn't feel pain for past mistakes, they'd be emotionally distant, IMO. And I also reckon anyone seeking help isn't a narcissist either. That means most if not all here don't have a narcissistic bone in their body, again, IMO. If I hear of someone being called a narcissist, I think of them as being misunderstood (not talking about the diagnosed NPD'd people).

My father had huge emotions and like a two-year-old, would throw tantrums. Like a two-year-old, he didn't understand his emotions, nor did he have enough awareness to look within or to seek help with learning how to handle his emotions. Limerents, in general, feel pained by limerence and seek help for OCD, intrusive thoughts, and behavioral patterns to be a better version of themselves. That's as far away from being a narcissist as you can get. Dare I say it... IMO. And this is why I feel we shouldn't label others because we have no idea if they are emotionally pained and where they are at in their journey of self-awareness.
"And in the end, we were all just humans…Drunk on the idea that love, only love, could heal our brokenness." ~ F. Scott Fitzgerald
fup
Posts: 84
Joined: Thu Apr 13, 2023 10:45 am
Belgium

Re: Narcissism in LE?

Post by fup »

L-F wrote: Mon May 15, 2023 11:15 pm So insightful fup. Thanks for sharing. As for parents passing down certain traits, check out fleas. By the way, I don't like it when people label themselves damaged or broken, when I read it it's like a pang to my heart (my issue not yours). I would say we are all a little damaged in one way or another, thus making us normal. You are right, it's often about coping mechanisms, so, in essence, we aren't damaged per se but have unhealthy coping mechanisms. I see us as being beautiful undamaged souls with the wrong kind of support growing up. But then, often narcissistic parents are nothing but beautiful undamaged souls with the wrong kind of support growing up. Sorry to hear your parents were like mine. It's difficult to grow up in this kind of environment.
https://outofthefog.website/what-not-to ... 12/3/fleas
fup wrote: Mon May 15, 2023 6:45 pm And in a way, isn’t non-clinical narcissism in a way a coping mechanism for unmet needs?
And this is why I don't like the term. Many issues get lumped under 'narcissism' as if it's selfish to find a way to meet one's needs. No, it's not. A person who uses unhealthy strategies isn't necessarily evil. More often than not they are unaware of the strategies they use and don't purposefully attempt to harm others. Fup, I'm assuming you didn't intentionally want to harm anyone right? I'm also assuming you did what you did while unaware and the moment you started inner work, you could see your coping style.

And this is why I feel society is too quick to label people narcissists. The same rule applies to our parents. It makes me cry thinking of my father dying with the emotional maturity of a two year old. Makes me sad to think his entire life he had zip self-awareness. I also question whether any heavy lifting would have crushed his soul. It hurts when you realise past mistakes.
I agree that no one is evil. I’m pretty convinced that only very few people in this world can be considered so. Most people have their struggles which can cause them to act in a selfish way. We’re all just trying to cope, I think, each with our individual wounds we’re trying to heal. Some wounds are deep though. Mine definitely are.
And I’ve never intentionally hurt anyone. Usually I find that I’m the one ending up hurt. But I’m pretty sure that is what a narcissist would say as well in order to explain why they don’t manage to connect with people and struggle with relationships. I’m just trying to recognize my own responsibility in the messy situations of my past. I’ve definitely been unaware about this when I was younger. But during my recent LE, I’ve found myself manipulating a person going through a really rough time. I don’t think I’ve done any worse than what every other person would have done. In fact I’m starting to realize that I might have even been behaving in abetter manner than others. But still.

Dehumanizing people is a trait in my LE that has been a wake-up call for me. This is not a trait to be proud of. Even if it comes from pain and a deep wound saying “why would anyone care about me”, so why should I care about them. When at its worst I think it’s more about some core belief in me, that I can’t possibly hurt others because I matter so little to them. Even if it’s very subtle, these patterns of pulling people in for them to validate me and meet my needs, and then act out (even if hidden within one self due to the shame of being in LE), these patterns share similarities with narcissism. At least for me.

I agree that we should not label people. I’m just realizing the fact, that I would go very far in order to get what I want during LE. And I would completely be oblivious to the fact that LO is a normal human being with feelings, unless I get confronted with it. Then luckily my conscience and empathy kicks in. Having my head that far up in my behind is definitely somewhat narcissistic.
L-F
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United States of America

Re: Narcissism in LE?

Post by L-F »

fup wrote: Tue May 16, 2023 8:13 am Having my head that far up in my behind is definitely somewhat narcissistic.
Perhaps having your head far up your backside is more about an inflated ego or sense of self-worth.
I grabbed this from the Merriam-Webster dictionary.
"Ego is the Latin word for "I." So if a person seems to begin every sentence with "I", it's sometimes a sign of a big ego. It was psychologist Sigmund Freud (well, actually his original translator) who put ego into the popular vocabulary, but what he meant by the word is complex, so only other psychologists really use it in the Freudian sense. The rest of us generally use ego simply to mean one's sense of self-worth, whether exaggerated or not. When used in the "exaggerated" sense, ego is almost the same thing as conceit... But having a reasonable sense of your own worth is no sin. Life's little everyday victories are good—in fact, necessary—for a healthy ego."

This means our ego can be healthy or unhealthy resulting in which path we take - a conceited one or an empathetic one.

So perhaps ego can take the place of the N-word in most cases?
"And in the end, we were all just humans…Drunk on the idea that love, only love, could heal our brokenness." ~ F. Scott Fitzgerald
fup
Posts: 84
Joined: Thu Apr 13, 2023 10:45 am
Belgium

Re: Narcissism in LE?

Post by fup »

L-F wrote: Tue May 16, 2023 9:49 pm
fup wrote: Tue May 16, 2023 8:13 am Having my head that far up in my behind is definitely somewhat narcissistic.
Perhaps having your head far up your backside is more about an inflated ego or sense of self-worth.
I grabbed this from the Merriam-Webster dictionary.
"Ego is the Latin word for "I." So if a person seems to begin every sentence with "I", it's sometimes a sign of a big ego. It was psychologist Sigmund Freud (well, actually his original translator) who put ego into the popular vocabulary, but what he meant by the word is complex, so only other psychologists really use it in the Freudian sense. The rest of us generally use ego simply to mean one's sense of self-worth, whether exaggerated or not. When used in the "exaggerated" sense, ego is almost the same thing as conceit... But having a reasonable sense of your own worth is no sin. Life's little everyday victories are good—in fact, necessary—for a healthy ego."

This means our ego can be healthy or unhealthy resulting in which path we take - a conceited one or an empathetic one.

So perhaps ego can take the place of the N-word in most cases?
Hmm… I’m not sure ego is the thing in play in my case. Perhaps it could be. I think I’m in a too bad place at the moment to really see that clearly
fup
Posts: 84
Joined: Thu Apr 13, 2023 10:45 am
Belgium

Re: Narcissism in LE?

Post by fup »

I’ve been giving this some thought now.
As a child and up to early adulthood I was definitely innocent in terms of narcissistic tendencies during LE. I was just a broken person desperately searching for human connection.
I’ve had to bad LE’s as an adult. In one of them I think I was a victim. In the recent LE I’ve been at fault. I was in a weird place in my life starting to get bored and insecure about what I want in life when something bad happened to me personally. Unfortunately I do remember having thoughts about pursuing LE and I’ve deliberately behaved in a way that triggered me to fall into limerence.
This I think is not ego, but rather some sort of narcissistic trait in me that wanted to see if I could get my desires met by manipulating others. I’m not proud of it, and I’ve learned my lesson from it big time. Again I wanna stress that I haven’t hurt anyone. But still… I was aware of what I was doing. Just not prepared for the consequences.
I’m not sure if this answers the question any better. If not at least I got to fess up in a safe space.
marko
Posts: 1802
Joined: Sun Feb 26, 2017 4:20 pm
United States of America

Re: Narcissism in LE?

Post by marko »

I wouldn't blame it on being a narc, as you wouldn't care to know, you just would. You are seeking approval from someone you don't think is attainable which I get, but is also a projection. LE gives one an elevated sense and makes anyone reasonable. Maybe a low sense of self as well that elevates them to a higher position, or you bought into the lie that certain things make people better. Pretty people complain no one asks them out due to things like this.
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