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Shame

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David
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Re: Shame

Post by David »

L-F wrote: Mon Jun 05, 2023 8:05 am
Again, not annoyed at anyone who suffers from shame, I'm annoyed they were put there in the first place!
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L-F
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Re: Shame

Post by L-F »

But in all seriousness, and opposite to what this thread is suggesting, sometimes I wonder if it's about jumping on the bandwagon type thing. I do not believe everything needs to be picked over to death, if that makes sense. Some things maybe, and some people may feel the need for it, which is perfectly fine, I'm talking in general that not everything needs to be unpacked with years of therapy. I suppose it's about being for or against therapy. I'm neither. I'm all for what works for the individual.

https://www.ted.com/search?q=shame
"And in the end, we were all just humans…Drunk on the idea that love, only love, could heal our brokenness." ~ F. Scott Fitzgerald
JupiterTaco
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Re: Shame

Post by JupiterTaco »

L-F, one ofhe things that kind of added onto my trauma of being born out of wedlock was being reminded that my mother was going to abort me but her mother talked her into keeping me.
"You know for a big black guy Cleveland's got a cute little white ass!" Peter, Family Guy
"Um...that wasn't Cleveland," Brian
vesseloflight
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Re: Shame

Post by vesseloflight »

JupiterTaco wrote: Wed Jun 07, 2023 3:29 am L-F, one ofhe things that kind of added onto my trauma of being born out of wedlock was being reminded that my mother was going to abort me but her mother talked her into keeping me.
Jupiter Taco -- that is awful that you heard such abusive words. I am so sorry that your mother consistently reminded you of something that was her issue. It is disgusting when adults do not look within and think of their words before speaking or writing. A journal does wonders!! The things we say that we cannot take back....but we can say them to a journal and burn it after. Your story is a painful lesson for me on the power of words...especially negative words.

I am so sorry you were told that repeatedly.

You are worthy. You matter. You belong here. None of us. NONE OF US....were meant to come into this world to be saviors to our parents.

I have been trying to get pregnant for a very long time and I am appalled by how many people think a baby will save them. It is sick how many people in my life have been fantasizing and letting me know their fantasy of how they want a baby for me and what it might be like or look like. All I have seen is blood go down the toilet and eight thousand dollars spent making sure all of what was left of the 'baby' was out due to a traumatizing, complicated miscarriage. This experience has opened my eyes to how unfair the world is and how adults really do not know how to keep their selfish words to themselves. Not sure if this will help you, but you came out of a woman's vagina and she didn't know what to do with you - she was not a mother to you. Despite this very sad fact for your life in association with your 'mother', you belong here. I believe we have a bigger role on this planet than worshipping the human sexual organs we came from. I hope you find healthy connections that let you know you belong here. I would give you a big hug if I could. In a very weird/meta way, I wish you could have been my baby.
JupiterTaco
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Re: Shame

Post by JupiterTaco »

Thank you Vessel.

Also the shame of having the last name of my mother's first husband who abused her? That's the prime example of how my identity was thwarted from birth.
"You know for a big black guy Cleveland's got a cute little white ass!" Peter, Family Guy
"Um...that wasn't Cleveland," Brian
L-F
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Re: Shame

Post by L-F »

JupiterTaco wrote: Wed Jun 07, 2023 3:29 am L-F, one ofhe things that kind of added onto my trauma of being born out of wedlock was being reminded that my mother was going to abort me but her mother talked her into keeping me.
Well, I can take one of two ways to answer this... Actually, I can take both ways
1. Yeah but, what they thought or said isn't your issue, it's their's. You are here and ain't you glad about it? and if she wasn't talked out of it you wouldn't know about it, right?
Gratitude springs to mind.

Or...

2. Oh im so sorry for your pain. Something you'll likely carry with you for life unless you do something about it.


Would you rather I molly coddle you or give it to you straight? I'm not being mean here. I'm empathetic of your situation because I know it would undeniably suck if I was reminded of their discussion. Their discussion. It's not you right?. Yes you've probably internalised it and trauma is a delicate subject. But you're here, you're an adult, you're aware and I hope to God you have support to transgress this trauma.

So sorry I didn't see your post to respond to!. Love you JT!

At some point you'll need to separate yourself from their shit that they flung your way. Personally, I wouldn't feel shame, I'd feel angry and indignant.
"And in the end, we were all just humans…Drunk on the idea that love, only love, could heal our brokenness." ~ F. Scott Fitzgerald
David
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Re: Shame

Post by David »

L-F wrote: Fri Jun 16, 2023 5:53 am
JupiterTaco wrote: Wed Jun 07, 2023 3:29 am L-F, one ofhe things that kind of added onto my trauma of being born out of wedlock was being reminded that my mother was going to abort me but her mother talked her into keeping me.
Well, I can take one of two ways to answer this... Actually, I can take both ways
1. Yeah but, what they thought or said isn't your issue, it's their's. You are here and ain't you glad about it? and if she wasn't talked out of it you wouldn't know about it, right?
Gratitude springs to mind.

Or...

2. Oh im so sorry for your pain. Something you'll likely carry with you for life unless you do something about it.


Would you rather I molly coddle you or give it to you straight? I'm not being mean here. I'm empathetic of your situation because I know it would undeniably suck if I was reminded of their discussion. Their discussion. It's not you right?. Yes you've probably internalised it and trauma is a delicate subject. But you're here, you're an adult, you're aware and I hope to God you have support to transgress this trauma.

So sorry I didn't see your post to respond to!. Love you JT!

At some point you'll need to separate yourself from their shit that they flung your way. Personally, I wouldn't feel shame, I'd feel angry and indignant.
Both answers are appropriate as they are not rescuing. We live in a world of rescuers, getting busy with other people's struggles instead of looking to heal their own pain.
The path to healing shame is to get it out and talk about it in safe places. Here is a good start. Therapy if your trust your therapist is another. For me, the ManKind project has been the best safe place. Still took me a long time to trust any of these outlets.

And likewise, big respect JT for you choosing to confront your shame. Its the road less travelled.
Purchase the 24 part video series on overcoming limerence - see https://limerence.thinkific.com/courses/healing-limerence
JupiterTaco
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Re: Shame

Post by JupiterTaco »

David wrote: Fri Jun 16, 2023 6:38 am
L-F wrote: Fri Jun 16, 2023 5:53 am
JupiterTaco wrote: Wed Jun 07, 2023 3:29 am L-F, one ofhe things that kind of added onto my trauma of being born out of wedlock was being reminded that my mother was going to abort me but her mother talked her into keeping me.
Well, I can take one of two ways to answer this... Actually, I can take both ways
1. Yeah but, what they thought or said isn't your issue, it's their's. You are here and ain't you glad about it? and if she wasn't talked out of it you wouldn't know about it, right?
Gratitude springs to mind.

Or...

2. Oh im so sorry for your pain. Something you'll likely carry with you for life unless you do something about it.


Would you rather I molly coddle you or give it to you straight? I'm not being mean here. I'm empathetic of your situation because I know it would undeniably suck if I was reminded of their discussion. Their discussion. It's not you right?. Yes you've probably internalised it and trauma is a delicate subject. But you're here, you're an adult, you're aware and I hope to God you have support to transgress this trauma.

So sorry I didn't see your post to respond to!. Love you JT!

At some point you'll need to separate yourself from their shit that they flung your way. Personally, I wouldn't feel shame, I'd feel angry and indignant.
Both answers are appropriate as they are not rescuing. We live in a world of rescuers, getting busy with other people's struggles instead of looking to heal their own pain.
The path to healing shame is to get it out and talk about it in safe places. Here is a good start. Therapy if your trust your therapist is another. For me, the ManKind project has been the best safe place. Still took me a long time to trust any of these outlets.

And likewise, big respect JT for you choosing to confront your shame. Its the road less travelled.
Thank you David!
"You know for a big black guy Cleveland's got a cute little white ass!" Peter, Family Guy
"Um...that wasn't Cleveland," Brian
JupiterTaco
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Re: Shame

Post by JupiterTaco »

I wonder if any form of the mankind project could be implemented in some form in prisons
"You know for a big black guy Cleveland's got a cute little white ass!" Peter, Family Guy
"Um...that wasn't Cleveland," Brian
David
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Re: Shame

Post by David »

JupiterTaco wrote: Sat Jun 17, 2023 3:25 am I wonder if any form of the mankind project could be implemented in some form in prisons
They have! Some MKP men in California took what we do it into a top security prison - Folsom - a documentary was made of it called the Work - definitely worth a watch IMJ

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