Meme/Quotes

[L-F]

"It is a metamorphosis from a state in which man is only a tool of instinctive nature, to another in which he is no longer a tool, but himself: a transformation of nature into culture, of instinct into spirit. One should take great care not to interrupt this necessary development by acts of moral violence, for any attempt to create a spiritual attitude by splitting off and suppressing the instincts is a falsification. Nothing is more repulsive than a furtively prurient spirituality; it is just as unsavoury as gross sensuality. But the transition takes a long time, and the great majority of people get stuck in the first stages."

- C.G. Jung, Marriage as a Psychological Relationship, CW 17: Development of Personality, pars. 335-336.

[Zsababy]

Getting your shit together requires a level of honesty you can't even imagine. There's nothing easy about realizing you're the one that's been holding you back this whole time.

Yes! It takes humility to stop blaming people. I went thru a period in my late 20s where I blamed my childhood financial difficulties & mental illness for my lack of success, when it was mostly a lack of direction and commitment & that I needed to find direction & be honest with myself about how hard I was willing to work for it.

[Zsababy]

"It is a metamorphosis from a state in which man is only a tool of instinctive nature, to another in which he is no longer a tool, but himself: a transformation of nature into culture, of instinct into spirit. One should take great care not to interrupt this necessary development by acts of moral violence, for any attempt to create a spiritual attitude by splitting off and suppressing the instincts is a falsification. Nothing is more repulsive than a furtively prurient spirituality; it is just as unsavoury as gross sensuality. But the transition takes a long time, and the great majority of people get stuck in the first stages."

- C.G. Jung, Marriage as a Psychological Relationship, CW 17: Development of Personality, pars. 335-336.

I'm going to be a doofus here & ask what prurient spirituality is. Those two words seem incongruous unless we're talking about the guru who just tries to get laid

[L-F]

I'm going to be a doofus here & ask what prurient spirituality is. Those two words seem incongruous unless we're talking about the guru who just tries to get laid

Tbh, wouldn't have a clue, but here's my take, keep in mind Spirituality has represented many things through the ages with all sorts of connotations. It means different things to different people for different reasons.
Jung believed sexuality and spirituality are outside of ourselves. The soul is oneself in the spiritual world "As the abode of the spirits, however, the spiritual world is also an outer world" Carl Jung, The Red Book, pg 288.
Prurient means 'itching' - to have an itching desire for something (in this case spirituality). Jung believed man should differentiate himself both from sexuality and spirituality. For the mother (spirituality) and Phallos (sexuality) are superhumans diamons (deity).

So yeah, one who thinks of themself as all that having sex with someone they think is all that. But I like your interpretation

[Zsababy]

Wow, you're very well-read! You know your stuff.

[L-F]

Wow, you're very well-read! You know your stuff.

Haha not really. Still find it difficult to grasp. I'm sure David could explain it better. Hey I think we've scared of Kaisercrazy I hope not. I enjoyed his take on this crazy mess called limerence, and I wish him well!

[Zsababy]

Wow, you're very well-read! You know your stuff.

Haha not really. Still find it difficult to graspwwee . I'm sure David could explain it better. Hey I think we've scared of Kaisercrazy I hope not. I enjoyed his take on this crazy mess called limerence, and I wish him well!

I think it was maybe more me although we were speaking in the same line of thought. I feel a little bad but it kind of needed to be said as that convo & scenario could've gone on forever & I think he was looking for us to demonize her to make himself feel better. I had some harsh words for her but ultimately we have to take some responsibility for our behavior, even if there's a reason for it.

I have to say that when he admitted to a trophy mate mentality, he completely lost me. I wrote off a friend over that, well actually she did a ton of things wrong but we had been discussing sex with famous people (I haven't, she has) and she admitted to thinking that a big part of sleeping with famous musicians was about that coolness factor, the notch on the belt. Maybe I'm totally projecting here, but I was repelled by that. Maybe I'm sensitive to it because my mom wanted me to be a dancer and kind of moaned about my giving it up after we saw a ballet. She said "I always wanted a dancer for a daughter." I wanted to say, "well why don't you get up there and twirl" or the time that she met me at the airport and said "oh no, I always wanted a blonde daughter" before she even said hello. (I had died my blonde hair brown, not to mention the fact that I'd had a psych hospitalization prior, so haircolor wasn't really my first priority.)

So as you can imagine, using people for status or as a showpiece realllllly rubs me the wrong way. I have zero respect for that. I'm being a total bitch here, but if that's your value system in connecting with people, don't be surprised if they're using you. So yeah, I obviously struck a chord with him. I don't think he was expecting to get called out like that. It was a fascinating conversation but yeah, that last point was a deal breaker for me.

[L-F]

So as you can imagine, using people for status or as a showpiece realllllly rubs me the wrong way. I have zero respect for that. I'm being a total bitch here, but if that's your value system in connecting with people, don't be surprised if they're using you. So yeah, I obviously struck a chord with him. I don't think he was expecting to get called out like that. It was a fascinating conversation but yeah, that last point was a deal breaker for me.

Interesting! I didn't read or at least glossed over the trophy stuff and was more referring to Davids vid - trying to use that as a reference point and directing him there. It wasn't until I read your pov that I saw what you were replying to. I think you hit the nail on the head. I was on the surface and you smashed the ball out of the park with regards to particular behavior (which again I overlooked). I was talking in general, because I do talk a lot about mirroring and woundmate stuff. A LOT of people want to blame someone else without looking in the mirror. It is like attracts like (instead of opposites attract) when it comes to limerence. I saw a political meme where people were lining up at the 'comfortable lies' stand and no one lining up at the 'unpleasant truths' stand. It's hard when someone hits a nerve but in my opinion, that's where growth lies. At any rate, I hope he was able to take something of value from the conversation to reflect upon. Although I sometimes question if these posts are legit or from past posters with a chip on their shoulder??? Idk.

[Zsababy]

Oh I feel like it was legit. He was clearly hoping that we'd go on about what a tease she was & let him off the hook. Just out of the blue I later thought, well maybe someone like her is used to men trying to manipulate her for sex or status & she's taking control of the game? Either way, it's a sad state of affairs.

[L-F]

"We will not get very far if we try to escape the truth we are carrying within us. The denied truth will be with us wherever we flee. It will cause us pain, prompt us to do things we will regret, increase our confusion, and weaken our self-confidence. But if we face up to it, we have a chance of finally recognizing what happened, what didn't happen, and what has forced us to end up living our lives in opposition to our most profound needs."

- Alice Miller, The Truth Will Set You Free: Overcoming Emotional Blindness and Finding Your True Adult Self (Evading Childhood Reality in Psychotherapy).