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Was Chris Watts limerent?

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LisaTranscending
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Joined: Thu Oct 01, 2015 12:48 pm

Was Chris Watts limerent?

Post by LisaTranscending »

I suppose when a sociopath/narcissist becomes limerent, the limerence can spiral so horribly out of control that the usual horrible stuff that happens to a normal person who becomes limerent, is actually very dangerous to extreme narcissists or sociopaths and those who are caught up in the great story that limerence can become.

Some of Chris Watt's behaviors and vocabulary surrounding his feelings for his coworker Nicole Kessinger (perhaps a breeding ground for limerence is the workplace) sounded hauntingly familiar to these post limerent ears.

"she took my breath away the first time I saw her, like no one else before her" (conversation with investigators in the interrogation room)
“It feels like a roller coaster ride that I just kept punching a ticket on and never could get off,” Watts said.
"the first day I got the guts to talk to you, I got lost in your stunning green eyes." (love letter to coworker Nicole)

I am convinced what started out as limerence became a full out affair. how it ended in the annihilation of his entire family, is certainly a very gruesome end to a limerent episode.

murder is not normal, but limerence perhaps is. but when limerence happens to an unhinged psyche, something so unimaginable, becomes possible. any thoughts?
Idiotic
Posts: 1978
Joined: Sun Sep 03, 2017 7:58 am

Re: Was Chris Watts limerent?

Post by Idiotic »

Lol I was not prepared for the rabbit hole , googling this case would take me to.
I couldn't get the articles you took excerpts from.
But from my hour long ' research' I think this guy is just a scumbag, who had a lot going on, and used his affair as an excuse to get rid of his family. Maybe it was like a tipping point, they had a lot of problems apparently, bad finances and other stuff. There are suggestions his wife controlled many aspects of their life(though I don't believe half the stuff they say).
In some articles it seems he is even blaming his mistress for making him do this. He has zero sense of responsibility even after confessing his crimes. He seemed to blame his family for being a burden on him, and then blaming his Mistress for making him kill his family . I mean wtf! He doesn't own his actions, he is always a victim in every scenario.
As much as I hated this guy after reading about him, I am disgusted with the 'people(trolls ) on social media . Many of them blaming Nicole for the murders! Saying she made him do it, manipulated him. Besides the standard misogyny at work here, its just scary that people would dedicate their time to dig out stuff from these people's private life and make theories it trying to get to the accurate version of things. I don't mean like a general discussion like we do sometimes, about something shocking, but systematically collecting 'proof' and gathering 'evidence' when it's not even their job.
There were loads of YouTube videos , explaining the relationship of Chris with his wife, of Chris with Nicole, what is the point of all that?? Those people appear psychopathic to me as well.
I keep dancing on my own - Robyn
Idiotic
Posts: 1978
Joined: Sun Sep 03, 2017 7:58 am

Re: Was Chris Watts limerent?

Post by Idiotic »

Hmm in that long rant i didn't even answer your question once. Imo I don't think limerence made him do it, maaybe he was limerent In the beginning like you said, but I wonder if this catastrophe was coming without limerence as well.
I just don't know, maybe you are right , maybe he did it under the spell of limerence :-?? We'll never know (I don't trust his confessions, about things other than the fact that he murdered them)
I keep dancing on my own - Robyn
NoDayDreaming

Re: Was Chris Watts limerent?

Post by NoDayDreaming »

i don't know the story, but i'm open minded. if love/limerence makes a semi-stable person do crazy things, worse things will happen to a sociopath or totally unhinged person. weren't some celebrities killed due to just that?

edit: i looked into this more and it doesn't sound like limerence:
Although the case horrified people across the country, Watts’ acts are not unprecedented. In many ways, he fits squarely in the pattern of family annihilators, a term for men (mostly white males in their 30s) who murder their entire families. Here’s an overview of the psychology behind family annihilation, and what drives the men who commit such heinous acts.

What is family annihilation?
Family annihilators is a term used to describe men (mostly white males in their 30s) who murder their entire families. The technical term is “familicide, which basically refers to the killing of one’s partner or spouse and one or the more of the children, [often] followed by the suicide of the perpetrator,” explains Dr. Neil Websdale, director of the Family Violence Institute at Northern Arizona, who published a 2010 book on the subject.

Often, family annihilation cases are prompted by an inciting incident, such as a job loss, says Dr. N.G. Berrill, forensic psychologist and director of New York Forensics, a private consulting group in New York City. (Neither Websdale nor Berrill have any connection to the Watts case.) There are “several different scenarios: one is that there’s long-term chaos or strife in the house, or if there’s concerns about [a wife’s] infidelity, or there’s a history of domestic violence,” he says.

Regardless, it is usually “the culmination of a very bad situation that’s festered,” Berrill says.

What are some of the defining characteristics of family annihilators?
Broadly speaking, family annihilation cases tend to fall on something of a “continuum,” says Websdale. “Some cases involve very violent, controlling batterers who are misogynistic, who engage in lots of acts of domestic violence up to the time of the killing,” he says. “At the other end of the continuum — which is really about the ability to regulate or repress anger — you’re looking at more controlled, repressed, depressed individuals who may be on the edge of a psychotic break.”

Occasionally, family annihilators will struggle with drug or alcohol abuse, which will reduce their ability to control their impulses; sometimes, they will exhibit signs of psychotic behavior, such as delusions or paranoia. “I’ve seen a number of occasions where the psychotic response or the delusions that run the psychotic behavior have this individual convinced that something evil is afloat, maybe possession. People in the family are out to kill them,” says Berrill. “It’s kind of done in a retaliatory manner, but acting out of psychotic belief.”

Perhaps most terrifyingly, Webdale says that “roughly about a third” of men who kill their families “involve the more repressed, depressed offenders, where we don’t have any known history of domestic violence.” While he’s careful to note that that doesn’t mean there was not a history of domestic violence (and for what it’s worth, there is no indication that Watts was violent toward his wife and daughters), it’s clear that the phenomenon is not limited to men who fit the profile for domestic abusers.

More often, family annihilators are characterized by an overwhelming sense of rage, whether it’s repressed or not. “There had to be one final stressor in those kind of scenarios, where someone just determines they were so angry or enraged they are just going to kill their family,” says Berrill.

How does the Watts case fit in with all this?
In the larger context of family annihilation cases, Watts’s case is somewhat unique. For starters, there is no evidence that he tried to take his own life after killing his family, as most family annihilators do. “The person who does it feels like they’re sparing their family from eminent financial harm or ruin or embarrassment, so they kill their family and themselves,” Berrill says. In fact, mere hours after their disappearance was reported, Watts appeared on local TV to plead for their safe return, and his web history reveals that he was happily planning a relationship with his new girlfriend, Googling jewelry and secluded weekend getaways.

Websdale believes this behavior may have stemmed from Watts’ belief that he could get away with the murders. “I think the fact that he didn’t commit suicide…may speak to this aggressive, narcissistic kind of personality, which says that he thinks he may be able to get away with this,” he says. “It speaks to the fact that he’s very very much self-centered and [felt] entitled to do these things.”

Additionally, unlike many family annihilators, Watts didn’t have a history of domestic violence or controlling, abusive behavior; nor was he motivated by an impending catastrophic event, such as an impending job loss or financial disaster. While he hasn’t revealed his motive, judging by the prosecutor’s report that he had argued with Shannan about wanting a divorce shortly before the murders, it seems that he was simply driven by a desire to start a new relationship with another woman, without being burdened by his family. “He [likely wanted to] preserve his right to pursue a relationship he wanted to pursue, and ideally without being incarcerated,” Berrill says.

Lambert’s revelation that Shannan threatened to take the kids away from Watts could also have played into his motive for the murders. “If he was being confronted by his spouse and she was threatening to take the kids away and he’d never see them again because of his affair, it might have provoked a level of rage that resulted in his inability to control himself,” Berrill says. “Rather than ‘you’ll take the kids away from me,’ it’s ‘I’ll take the kids away by murdering them.'” For this reason, Websdale believes that Watts “fits the profile for some sort of antisocial personality disorder,” which he says describes about one-fifth of family annihilators.
https://www.rollingstone.com/culture/cu ... hy-803957/
JupiterTaco
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Re: Was Chris Watts limerent?

Post by JupiterTaco »

Quite possibly, the signs definitely point to yes. Many other people, such as Diane Downs, Scott Peterson, and William (Brad) Jackson also had the same issues. Whether or not it's because they lacked the coping skills to deal with the emotions associated with limerence or they simply saw those they were pursuing as objects to be possessed, or a little of both, could be debatable I guess. It's really sad that there are people who would go that far though.
"Are you hitting on me?" Paige, The L Word
"Um...no...I wasn't...but...I'm sorry if I made you uncomfortable," Shane
"I'm sorry. I was hoping that you were," Paige
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LisaTranscending
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Re: Was Chris Watts limerent?

Post by LisaTranscending »

NoDayDreaming....funny how your LE nickname will play into my response.

So I read the Rolling stone article, but don't agree that Watts was a family annihilator in the true psychological paramenters of the constellation of check-off's that might qualify him as such. (it's even contended he's an outlier in those constellation of psychological markers that would qualify him.) for instance, annihilators usually commit suicide after killing off the family members. (not always). but the motivation to kill usually surrounds an underlying motivation to protect (however unilaterally deluded the reasoning is). Protect from some evil shameful event that is about to befall the family be it political, spiritual, financial...or whatever the deluded one reasons justifies the killings. Watts is only a family annihilator in deed, not in motive.

Watts wasn't motivated by any sense of care for the individuals he murdered, but was strictly motivated by his limerence to clear the way for his encounters with his LO. The limerent brain isn't fixated on the people around him, but on the limerent object and encounters with the LO. How many of us have not found ourselves sitting at kitchen tables staring blankly at our loved ones, completely hijacked to some far off land of bliss, "day Dreaming" our life away, and absent for the people who are near us.

Watts was so hijacked by his limerence. The people around him disappeared. There is some emotional disappearance that happens to the limerent brain when the object and energy of all our psychological landscape is dedicated to an LO.

Of course usually this absence is accompanied by a sense of guilt in a normal mind. For the psychopath, guilt is a word in a dictionary book, and not something that's ever emotionally experienced. That's what separates the phenomena of limerence in a somewhat healthy brain(healthy being a subjective term I suppose)to limerence experienced in a sick mind.
NoDayDreaming

Re: Was Chris Watts limerent?

Post by NoDayDreaming »

Lisa, you might be right, we'll never know unless he writes a book or talks about it.
my "name" is not a coincident. i know (not just believe) No Day Dreaming (together with kindness and honesty in relationships) will protect you from limerence.
JupiterTaco
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Re: Was Chris Watts limerent?

Post by JupiterTaco »

I wanted to add to this since I watched the documentary, which was increasingly hard to do. To be honest I haven't read a whole lot about the case as it just pisses me off.

The idea of filming one's whole life seems odd, but it really gave a certain life to the documentary. It really shows the world what is now missing.

I have to wonder if Chris's parents threw a lot of negativity on the marriage or if Chris smear-campaigned his wife or some of both.

If the girlfriend had any character, she probably went WTF...in the wake of this. I'm trying to remember that as I also remind myself that she was a victim too and it could happen to anyone. But mostly I tried not to stare at his picture and just imagine the terror his family endured in their last moments.
"Are you hitting on me?" Paige, The L Word
"Um...no...I wasn't...but...I'm sorry if I made you uncomfortable," Shane
"I'm sorry. I was hoping that you were," Paige
JupiterTaco
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Re: Was Chris Watts limerent?

Post by JupiterTaco »

I also wanted to touch on Lisa's post, talking about Chris's letters. Much of these things are identical to things my ex wrote in letters. It was hard as a young woman not to assume he was clearly smitten over me.

And since I later happened across a dating profile where he said similar things he said in his letters to me to charm me, it's not hard to imagine the compliments meant for me also went to every other woman as well.
"Are you hitting on me?" Paige, The L Word
"Um...no...I wasn't...but...I'm sorry if I made you uncomfortable," Shane
"I'm sorry. I was hoping that you were," Paige
marko
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Re: Was Chris Watts limerent?

Post by marko »

Whether yes or no, I find I'm not surprised by most human behavior. I think most underestimate how off center people can be. I work with students who have emotional and behavioral issues and this whole LE thing gives me a new and better perspective. The teachers and professionals dismiss things that seem so obvious to me--like no, that is the issue, the rest are symptoms. Learning how I project so much and how irrational I was still amazes me. Not sure the pathway to such darkness, but mix a few other issues and anything is possible.
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