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Which takes me back to the topic of grooming.
Or rather, the opposite of grooming where someone is hoping they will become an LO. All very fascinating to me. I'm wondering if it's more about looking for narcissistic type qualities in order to satisfy a need for the level of attention and flattery a narcissistic type person with grooming abilities is able to provide?
I think cases like this are a perfect storm. Sure, there's some kind of hinky concept of love going on, some kind of obsession, but I maintain that you have to have a deep seated streak of cruelty to do the things they did.
It's just like when they say violent criminals and pedophiles lack empathy, as if it explains it. Not quite. They have urges that more normal people, even many people with mental illness, don't have. Who knows if it's nature or nurture; it's probably both working in concert for a "perfect storm" of horrific behavior.
Going back to the original question (I tend to go off-topic), regarding limerence and sadistic psychopathic/sociopathic behavior, it doesn't matter if either of them were limerent because limerence wouldn't cause a person to go off the rails to the point of killing, not when you consider how many people are limerent who don't kill. They would have to be deeply disturbed individuals as Zsababy pointed out.
I actually don't know the stories in detail, only picking up the twisted things they did on here (which is more than enough detail thanks, lol, no need to traumatize myself any further).
Again, and only my opinion, limerence is an obsession but not enough to make someone want to kill unless mentally ill to start with.
Hate to read about the stuff done and no doubt over a period of time
Going back to limerence, I'm pretty sure he/they were limerent yet the point seems mute given their diagnosis & crime. I highly doubt limerence was enough to trigger a tsunami of horrific acts.
I understood your question. I think they did suffer from limerence but like others have said it seems to have been the least of their problems.SierraM wrote: ↑Tue Feb 07, 2023 4:03 am I don't know about the original question but mine was *not* about whether limerence would explain the acts. Clearly these individuals had other, more serious issues. My question was: are individuals who are clinically diagnosed with ASPD, or sociopaths/psychopaths, if you will, such as is clearly the case with Downs and Watts, also subject to limerence, as I think this peculiarity can shed some light on the condition of limerence itself for us "normal" people let's say. I think it's indeed interesting from a scientific perspective as it can contribute to understand who and who is not subject to limerence, which was a major point of Dorothy Tennov's book.
Agree, it doesn't. I'd say their diagnosis does though. Or at least in part.
Interesting angle. What makes you think it would shed light on who does or who doesn't fall limerent? What is your take on the matter if they were indeed limerent?SierraM wrote: ↑Tue Feb 07, 2023 4:03 am My question was: are individuals who are clinically diagnosed with ASPD, or sociopaths/psychopaths, if you will, such as is clearly the case with Downs and Watts, also subject to limerence, as I think this peculiarity can shed some light on the condition of limerence itself for us "normal" people let's say.
Well, I didn't say they were planned *well*. Just that it wasn't like they snapped and grabbed a gun nearby. They had plans, not just impulses.JupiterTaco wrote: ↑Tue Feb 07, 2023 1:39 am Methodically planned out??? Well thankfully for their families these two did a terrible job. I mean that both of them thought they were going to get away with this??? Especially Shanann, she was all over the internet, did this dipshit really think somebody was not going to miss her at some point??? Or Diane Down's kid who survived who had a panic attack when she showed up at the hospital to visit her like nothing happened? Did she really think she'd forget that her mom tried to kill her??? Stupid people make cops' jobs easier I guess...
Their thought processes are obviously way off as they are not like the rest of us. These people actually think, and probably could, live a "normal" life after killing their children. Like they were just obstacles to their happiness that needed to be gotten rid of. Those are people with just bizarre conceptions of what a normal life would be, so they probably have no fear. Apparently, psychopaths don't have much fear, whereas a normal person would fear capture more than they.
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