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Over a year and still struggling hard

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Limmed_Out
Posts: 37
Joined: Sat Nov 11, 2017 5:34 pm
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Age: 45
Canada

Over a year and still struggling hard

Post by Limmed_Out »

Well...it’s been a while since I’ve been here just looking for support/advice about my current psychological and emotional state. I found this forum back when I had a previous LE concerning a co-worker whilst I was married. (viewtopic.php?f=4&t=4019&p=33805#p33805)

The outcome of that episode was that my wife and I separated and I moved across the country back to the Toronto area where I grew up. I believe still that that relationship needed to end irrespective of anything else...she lied and manipulated me constantly due to her love of the bottle, AND there was never that real passion and chemistry which through my previous LE I came to realize I need in a relationship (as well as friendship and mutual care). But I digress.

So...I moved back to Toronto in July 2018 and still struggled with feelings/fantasies concerning the LO for a while yet. I was actively chatting up girls in my immediate environment (work; I know don’t defecate where you masticate right). I was lonely for sure and even though I have more family and childhood friends closer to me here, I clearly was a little too motivated to find that special connection I’ve been hoping for.

Anyhow, come November there was a new hire, another woman who was also of the same ethnic persuasion as the previous (and at that time somewhat current, though NC did help in that case to lower the volume a lot) LO. The thing this time is I wasn’t encumbered by an existing relationship. I also kinda fought the feelings I started having for her, told myself I wasn’t ready to pursue her etc. Still we developed what felt like a decent friendship sort of platform...she would Skype me every morning (I would limit my initiation of things), invite me for lunches together and all that kinda jazz. We found we had lots in common in terms of our faith, being analytical types (she also had engineering background from her home country), enjoyment of sports, similar tastes in music, etc. Our conversations were and continued to be very stimulating and enjoyable...with this sort of pre-relationship phase culminating in her giving me, unbidden, a big warm full body press hug on Christmas Eve. (There had been a decent amount of flirty touchy touchy stuff before.)

Long and short of it is I started offering to drive her partway home (she lived about a 90 minute bus trip from our mutual workplace), and told her explicitly that I liked her and like, let’s hang out. She told me she cared for me and liked me too, but was kinda waffle-y about going out for coffee (“oh I’m pretty busy but here’s my phone number). I interpreted her ambivalence correctly figuring that she liked me, but was scared and hesitant (due to her past). So I, though somewhat anxious to get things really going, did the right thing and gave her space and didn’t press the issue, overthink, or get butthurt.

Sure enough, a couple of weeks rolled by and she ended up asking me out for coffee. We had a wonderful time together even though I took her to a crappy seafood restaurant (hey, I was new to Toronto then). Things escalated quickly from there...we became very physically involved, she started wanting me to text her when I got home after dropping her off from a date so she would know I got home safely (which I liked bc to me that indicated that she felt a fairly reciprocal level of emotional investment as me.

Things were really - I mean, really really - good for the next month or so after we started seeing each other in this way. In fact, I would say it was everything I was looking for as far as a strong friendship connection AND really passionate, in her words “soulful” romantic chemistry. We talked about our dreams of traveling together, we both wanted to put God first in our lives (easier said than done), enjoyed playing basketball and badminton together, lots of things like that.

However, somehow she still was reluctant to call herself my girlfriend, although we had talked about and agreed to exclusivity. She explained that in her mind (and iirc, in Filipino culture), such a term is tantamount to being engaged...so I was like ok. By this point I was very ready to marry her but I know I get easily attached so no big biggie, let’s have some patience.

Despite the fact we were/are both Christian, she was of a more modern “evangelical” persuasion and I was and am Orthodox old school. But we agreed on a lot, would pray together, etc. I attended her church and small group a few times, invited her to come to mine but she hemmed and hawed at that. I knew she had had some bad experience with Roman Catholicism which I figure made her a bit reluctant to explore Orthodox Christianity. Also she has a teenage son whom the father abandoned when she was giving birth so...yeah she is damaged too.

The point is that these things, coupled with her come hither / go away behaviour led me to get increasingly anxious about where things were going, even though she would start talking more and more about being “Facebook official”. The tipping point came when we had spent Friday night and most of Saturday together, with the passion and companionship at an all time high. I phoned her mid afternoon on the Sunday feeling all lovey dovey...she didn’t answer and didn’t respond at all that night.

Being as I struggle with anxious attachment patterns, this set me into a real state of turmoil...I ended up not sleeping and missing work the next day. We ended up having a big (our first real) fight which I confess I picked due to my anxiety. She hung up on me, but texted me good night later on.

At that point I decided I needed to do something to deal with the now-intense anxiety I was feeling. I told her I needed some time and space (although it was the opposite of what I really wanted), suggested we refrain from kissing etc. in order to kind of check our heads a little. Maybe that was the mistake, because from there on the reduced time together and expressions of affection increased my sense of loss/insecurity, and a vicious cycle of me chasing and her distancing herself began. Still we hung out and talked about our future, things like that. I found the Harville Hendrix book “Keeping the Love You Find” which formed a key interpretive framework in my mind for what was going on between her and I (I’m anxious-maximizing, she fearful-minimizing) and I loved his whole view of “imago” partners and the strong chemistry and challenge which results when two such find each other. I asked her to consider reading it, which at first she said yes to them almost immediate said no. I felt so committed to try and make things work, it upset me that she was or had become so ambivalent again.

My emotional state became worse and worse until finally I interrupted her on a phone call basically demanding please let me drive you home so we could talk. She agreed, but obviously was upset (and rightly so). By this point I was obsessed with making things work and just couldn’t seem to control myself (despite understanding I needed to NOT chase but give her space). Another wonky text or two, some more missed work (which resulted in HR asking me questions and stupid me, I was too honest and told them why - and who, after some goading - I was such a wreck. They ended up calling her in and she made it sound to them like we only went out a couple of times! This shocked and upset me, so I reacted defensively like “uh, we were physically involved for 2 months you know” - (sigh, my foolish pride) and things escalated from there. HR ended up telling me “she says it’s over” even though they admitted to me they didn’t understand why she wouldn’t tell me herself.

Finally, in early June of last year she blocked me on the company Skype (cruelly ironic since that was a key medium of our early getting acquainted). (Don’t think she blocked me on her phone though; I didn’t try.) Regardless, that was the proverbial straw which broke the camel’s back, set me off the deep end, and I suffered a total mental and emotional breakdown. I felt like I was in total hell, I thought I had lost my faith in God, I isolated myself in my apartment pacing around for hours and hours on end barely eating for months and months. Though on short term disability for depression, I refused to communicate with my work other than through my father and ended up forfeiting/abandoning my position. I lost my apartment and my car, and though now I have recovered my sense of sanity (mostly) I’m still trying to rebuild my life during this very difficult time of COVID. 😕

I didn’t honestly think about her that much from last July through May or so of this year...I was caught in a weird spiritual turmoil and the thing with her felt like it was a level up / beyond what I was capable of dealing with. So as my general state of being has improved over the last few months, the thought of reconnecting with her became more palpable. She had told me she wanted things really badly with me (the same night she did the yes and no thing with the book), I remember all that we shared, I know things got fairly outta hand but I had hoped maybe a year apart might change things, she might be willing to talk again and from there who knows, right?

I went to her place therefore about a month ago, but when I was parked outside on the street I kinda panicked thinking I don’t want to overwhelm her so maybe just phone her. I did, she didn’t answer (she also isn’t as tied to her phone as most women I know) so I left a somewhat nervous message saying “hey it’s me was just in the neighborhood and wondering if we could talk, don’t like how we left things”. Waited a week, she didn’t call back. I did some more (over-?)thinking and finally realized I should apologize for how I treated her with (albeit unintentionally) getting work involved bc I know it wasn’t necessary (I should have only talked to friends and family for support). Left another message with her, which I had to re-record about 4 times before I was happy with it. Another week passes, no response. Figure at this point I should probably just accept total defeat and failure, so I send her this text:

“ I know it probably sounds like I’m sucking up to you again, I just want to clarify the sense in which I’m very sorry for how I behaved last April/May/June especially. Sorry not just because I turned you off and lost you for good, but sorry moreso for the pain and stress I caused you with my controlling anxiety-driven behaviour. I suppose it wasn’t until very recently that someone really got me to think what it must’ve been like to be on the receiving end of that.


You meant a lot to me, [her name]...of all the women I’ve met or had a relationship with you were the one I most liked and enjoyed being with. You had and likely still have a lovely combination of sweetness and spiciness which I’m happy to have experienced. I’m not saying you were perfect or that you didn’t hurt me at all; whatever is to be forgiven I forgive and now I will choose to forget you and move on, something which is long overdue on my part.

Please know I will not take any further initiative to contact you. I wish and pray the best for you and [her son], and if nothing else, I will hope one day to see you in heaven when and where all is made new and right.

Take care and God bless.”

That was a week ago Saturday and no word from her. I meant what I wrote I’m just having a horrible time again accepting that things didn’t work out and that there’s no way back. Of course part of me hoped and hopes that maybe she’ll have a change of heart, I think sometimes that I didn’t express all I would have liked to (ie I feel an unconditional love and acceptance for her despite her faults and clear issues), that it was fear and pride which killed what seemed so promising and what felt so real). I still hunger for that connection but I don’t think there’s much else I can or maybe should do. I’m not so consumed by it but it does take up a disproportionate amount of airtime in my thoughts.

Finally (thank you for your patience in reading my whole sordid tale), I just have the most horrible time accepting this because it seems we were so close to the level of mutual commitment and public recognition I wanted and yet so far....it feels like I lost someone I cared very deeply for and still care about, like I lost a potential soul mate bc we were well on our way to that when things turned for the worse. I guess maybe in the final analysis I just didn’t mean as much to her as she did and does to me. But the worst part is it feels like it was my fault, if only I could have just eased up and given her room to breathe (which I knew was the right thing to do I just COULDNT) I wouldn’t have turned her off and pushed her so apparently irreparably far away. Yes, she triggered my insecurities very well and yet I navigated those with grace in the early days...she even later (when we stopped being physical) told me with tears how emotionally safe I had made her feel.

Idk it still, over a year on, feels so tragic. I want to tell her I love her and why, that I want to make her feel really loved and safe, will she just give things a chance but I’m afraid it won’t mean anything much to her at best (or scare her at worst). And yes, I did check her Facebook and if she’s seeing someone it at least isn’t “fb official” yet.

Any thoughts you might have are appreciated. 🙂
Cookie
Posts: 1190
Joined: Wed Sep 27, 2017 4:08 pm
United States of America

Re: Over a year and still struggling hard

Post by Cookie »

Limerent Out,

You can second-guess everything you ever did, but she’s a runner. We say on here that it’s all about US, but I think it’s important to look at her too and why you feel that her love is what will make it all right. Will save you. Since you mention shared spiritual beliefs, only God can do that. Take this experience for the lesson that it was and study it. I found the biggest relief in giving it up to God/the Universe. Why can’t we be together? Because it was not meant to be.
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Limmed_Out
Posts: 37
Joined: Sat Nov 11, 2017 5:34 pm
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Age: 45
Canada

Re: Over a year and still struggling hard

Post by Limmed_Out »

Thanks Cookie. Part of the/my problem is I like to take a disproportionate amount of blame/responsibility when those I love mistreat or abandon me. Somehow it is easier to explain away their faults, and I need to stop doing this while also not going to the other end of the spectrum and being very angry at them.

The other part of my problem is that yes, God does the saving/healing of our souls as we turn to Him...however he does it through means. The purpose of marriage is to assist each other in and on the pathway to union with God...part of how we know God is through the love of others, especially in a marriage type relationship. So no, she wouldn’t save me in some absolute sense but her love (and her sin/challenges could be of great benefit (and vice versa). Perhaps that’s something we should have talked more about...sigh...well at least the challenging aspect of things can and will serve as a refining fire of sorts.

Giving things up to God as you suggest is indeed my challenge now...part of my struggle was being angry at Him for (seemingly due to my limited human perspective) not giving more grace to help me/us stop the destructive pattern we got into. Probably he did but maybe it was her that was too stubborn...I even told her one time that all you want vis a vis a relationship is possible right here with me, just have to work through the complementary issues we both have. She felt it was too hard, and (am I making excuses again?) maybe it simply was as a lot of issues surfaced. (She had limited experience of relationships too.) Maybe she just wasn’t ready and unfortunately apparently hasn’t done the work it might take to get her there.
To disclose or not to disclose, that is the question...whether 'tis nobler in the mind to bear the slings and arrows of outrageous limerence, or by taking up arms and revealing, PERHAPS end them...

Thus limerence doth make maniacs of us all. :-@
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Chuck
Posts: 114
Joined: Wed Feb 19, 2014 11:04 pm
Canada

Re: Over a year and still struggling hard

Post by Chuck »

Hey Limmed,
That is a really tough story, and I'm sorry you've had the wrestle through it all. It's never easy.
I think that the big thing you need to remind yourself now is that you've done everything that you needed to do. You offered her the relationship. You offered to smooth things over. You told her how you feel.
She heard. She knows.
You're done.
She has decided not to pursue it. That's her choice and isn't a reflection on you beyond the fact that she is looking for something else.
As hard as it can be to get your head around, you are now free to explore other avenues and find someone as committed you as you are to them. Embrace the opportunity as best you can, and explore the freedom you have in front of you.
I'd be lying if I said that I didn't envy you, . . . just a little bit.
"In the end, only three things matter: how much you loved, how gently you lived, and how gracefully you let go of things not meant for you."
Buddhist saying
Limmed_Out
Posts: 37
Joined: Sat Nov 11, 2017 5:34 pm
Gender:
Age: 45
Canada

Re: Over a year and still struggling hard

Post by Limmed_Out »

Thanks Chuck. The problem now is that I don’t feel I’ve really told her how I feel about her and why...and that my love has been purified significantly in that I just want to make her feel safe and cherished...ie. the controlling motive is about giving just cuz, secondarily of course I value the affection etc. she gave so freely when things were going good. In other words it feels less about me/my ego than perhaps it was. I finally feel confident that I can navigate her hesitancy again.

I just want to feel I’ve put my best foot forward and I don’t feel satisfied that I have.
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Chuck
Posts: 114
Joined: Wed Feb 19, 2014 11:04 pm
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Re: Over a year and still struggling hard

Post by Chuck »

Limmed_Out wrote: Mon Jul 27, 2020 11:45 pmYou meant a lot to me, [her name]...of all the women I’ve met or had a relationship with you were the one I most liked and enjoyed being with. ... and now I will choose to forget you and move on, something which is long overdue on my part.

Please know I will not take any further initiative to contact you. I wish and pray the best for you and [her son], and if nothing else, I will hope one day to see you in heaven when and where all is made new and right.

Take care and God bless.”

That was a week ago Saturday and no word from her.
It can be so hard to move on from these things. It took me a year and a half to finally let LO go, which was ultimately the best thing. Six years later she still lurks about in the shadows of my mind. As much as I wanted her to be happy, and wanted to be a part of making her happy, it was never about what she actually wanted.

Everything you need to know has already been written in your own words and ,hardest of all, in her silence.
Sending strength your way.
"In the end, only three things matter: how much you loved, how gently you lived, and how gracefully you let go of things not meant for you."
Buddhist saying
Limmed_Out
Posts: 37
Joined: Sat Nov 11, 2017 5:34 pm
Gender:
Age: 45
Canada

Re: Over a year and still struggling hard

Post by Limmed_Out »

I just don’t understand why, after I make the decision to let go / move on and kind of tie my hands a bit, NOW I feel the sense of clarity and control, of being over her enough to actually be able to attract her back....before I was too emotionally unstable (beating myself up / taking excessive blame). In my experience women tend to (if not absolutely) reflect the sort of energy a guy puts out there...ie if you’re nervous she’ll feel it and respond in similar manner (and may act in anger or hide or whatnot)...if she feels a warm accepting confidence it tends to promote a similar reciprocal response. I don’t believe I really put out those confident vibes in my phone messages, I wish I could just talk with her face to face. Maybe I just fucked it up again by reaching out before I myself was truly ready to focus on giving and not on receiving. (The focus on giving is what I remember having while things were good and she was jumping all over me...subtly it shifted into being about receiving said affection from her once she started to pull back. 😞

What she most wanted and I assume she still wants is a man to love and cherish her and become as a father to her child. (I think she’d rather I was non-denom Christian like her so maybe that’s more of a thing than I want to believe.) If she believes and is adamant I’m not able to do that then I guess there’s nothing more to say. Trouble is with her and her type so many things she kept and keeps hidden until maybe too late....this is why the whole ghosting/hiding thing really is unkind imo. Because my mind can picture her feeling a pull to me on one hand but running on the other...like things became before.

I really appreciate your bringing up what she wants and needs, to make that the priority. Just so many potential ambiguities idk...and I also really like your signature line 🙂
Last edited by Limmed_Out on Wed Jul 29, 2020 9:12 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Limmed_Out
Posts: 37
Joined: Sat Nov 11, 2017 5:34 pm
Gender:
Age: 45
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Re: Over a year and still struggling hard

Post by Limmed_Out »

Also I just wish things would work like in the movie Hitch where they both make every dumb mistake and yet somehow still end up together...maybe that only happens in fantasy and not in reality, I don’t know.
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