Problem + Solution

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AClue4U
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Joined: Thu Oct 22, 2020 2:53 pm
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Problem + Solution

Post by AClue4U »

Your LOs are manipulating you.

You are confused and distraught because they ARE sending mixed messages TO CONFUSE YOU.

They are not being honest about what they're doing - they're not being honest because that would defeat the purpose of their game: you are being emotionally manipulated.

You did not generate these feelings on your own, this is not a self-esteem issue, nor does it mean you are broken or that there is something wrong with you. You are not crazy. You are human and have vulnerabilities that have been *correctly identified and toyed with* by your LOs. You are transparent to them. So stop second guessing yourself. You are being manipulated. You are being victimized. They KNOW you like them, make no mistake about it. And they are playing you.

The solution is to get angry and go ***NO CONTACT***. You have to disarm all the emotional hooks they set up in your brain through subtle seduction/grooming and intermittent reinforcement (aka "hot and cold" behavior - which leads to addiction, which leads to severe and debilitating depression).

Your LO will most definitely make it really hard for you to be done with them and WILL pursue you when you do this. Expect it. They are trying to trap their prey. It is not innocent, so get angry. How dare they.

The more they can make you second-guess yourself and believe in their innocence, the longer this plays out and the longer your life will be one of intense and increasing turmoil. DO NOT second-guess yourself!!! Do them no harm, do not confront them (they will never admit it), just cut yourself off from that relationship.

You are their victim, they are not your victim. So flee, like every victim does when they sense danger. They're certainly not in any hurry to flee from you, unless it's time to play "cold" (you know how it goes... cold right before "hot"). They enjoy tormenting you.

Do not underestimate how wicked, sly and double-faced people can be while appearing completely innocent. You'd be surprised. A lot of evil is hidden through self-deception, so happens unconsciously, but make no mistake: it is willful. They are deceptive monsters. Run and be free. You can do it.
JupiterTaco
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Joined: Sun Jun 28, 2015 6:12 pm
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Re: Problem + Solution

Post by JupiterTaco »

I don't think that's always the case, it just depends. Good way to remind oneself about how one deserves better though (without demonizing the LO)
"He got down on one knee and he said, Tonya, would you not marry me? Because I love you too much to make you unhappy. I know what's in your heart. Be true to yourself, Tonya. Follow your heart," Tonya, The L Word
Maddie
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Re: Problem + Solution

Post by Maddie »

@AClueforyou
Imo, this is very close to the truth! (For my situation) and this was validating to read.
Thank you!! I wish I could rewind the time and take this advice. Better late than never though. At least I'm out now.
I hope you live a life you’re proud of, and if you’re not, I hope you have the courage to start all over again.

F. Scott Fitzgerald
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Teana
Posts: 85
Joined: Sun Jun 21, 2020 2:07 pm
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Austria

Re: Problem + Solution

Post by Teana »

I dont think most of the LOs are manipulating you conciously. Most people like to believe they are good people and even if they give mixed signals, its more of a mirror of their own internal problems, unmet needs which they try to fullfill and we are willingly putting outselfs to be their sources.
I again dont think they do it intentionally, unless you are talking about psychopaths and sociopaths.
F 28
LO M 40
JMNYC77
Posts: 12
Joined: Sat Oct 24, 2020 4:19 pm
United States of America

Re: Problem + Solution

Post by JMNYC77 »

AClue4U wrote: Thu Oct 22, 2020 3:04 pm Your LOs are manipulating you.

You are confused and distraught because they ARE sending mixed messages TO CONFUSE YOU.

They are not being honest about what they're doing - they're not being honest because that would defeat the purpose of their game: you are being emotionally manipulated.

You did not generate these feelings on your own, this is not a self-esteem issue, nor does it mean you are broken or that there is something wrong with you. You are not crazy. You are human and have vulnerabilities that have been *correctly identified and toyed with* by your LOs. You are transparent to them. So stop second guessing yourself. You are being manipulated. You are being victimized. They KNOW you like them, make no mistake about it. And they are playing you.

The solution is to get angry and go ***NO CONTACT***. You have to disarm all the emotional hooks they set up in your brain through subtle seduction/grooming and intermittent reinforcement (aka "hot and cold" behavior - which leads to addiction, which leads to severe and debilitating depression).

Your LO will most definitely make it really hard for you to be done with them and WILL pursue you when you do this. Expect it. They are trying to trap their prey. It is not innocent, so get angry. How dare they.

The more they can make you second-guess yourself and believe in their innocence, the longer this plays out and the longer your life will be one of intense and increasing turmoil. DO NOT second-guess yourself!!! Do them no harm, do not confront them (they will never admit it), just cut yourself off from that relationship.

You are their victim, they are not your victim. So flee, like every victim does when they sense danger. They're certainly not in any hurry to flee from you, unless it's time to play "cold" (you know how it goes... cold right before "hot"). They enjoy tormenting you.

Do not underestimate how wicked, sly and double-faced people can be while appearing completely innocent. You'd be surprised. A lot of evil is hidden through self-deception, so happens unconsciously, but make no mistake: it is willful. They are deceptive monsters. Run and be free. You can do it.
Thank you for this - this is very validating. This was true in my case, for sure. However, after a while, my behavior became so persistent and desperate that my LO cut off contact with me and I don't think they have any interest in me at all anymore. It's amazing how unattractive limerant behavior can make a person.
LO: married 50 yo man with 2 teenage kids
Me: 38 yo woman in serious long term relationship
Limerent since 2018; seems to have gotten worse since Covid. Working on NC.
JMNYC77
Posts: 12
Joined: Sat Oct 24, 2020 4:19 pm
United States of America

Re: Problem + Solution

Post by JMNYC77 »

Teana wrote: Fri Oct 23, 2020 1:11 am I dont think most of the LOs are manipulating you conciously. Most people like to believe they are good people and even if they give mixed signals, its more of a mirror of their own internal problems, unmet needs which they try to fullfill and we are willingly putting outselfs to be their sources.
I again dont think they do it intentionally, unless you are talking about psychopaths and sociopaths.
I also agree with this. My LO repeatedly cut things off and said he was only responding during moments of weakness when he needed his ego fed.
LO: married 50 yo man with 2 teenage kids
Me: 38 yo woman in serious long term relationship
Limerent since 2018; seems to have gotten worse since Covid. Working on NC.
JupiterTaco
Posts: 4928
Joined: Sun Jun 28, 2015 6:12 pm
United States of America

Re: Problem + Solution

Post by JupiterTaco »

JMNYC77 wrote: Sat Oct 24, 2020 5:59 pm
Teana wrote: Fri Oct 23, 2020 1:11 am I dont think most of the LOs are manipulating you conciously. Most people like to believe they are good people and even if they give mixed signals, its more of a mirror of their own internal problems, unmet needs which they try to fullfill and we are willingly putting outselfs to be their sources.
I again dont think they do it intentionally, unless you are talking about psychopaths and sociopaths.
I also agree with this. My LO repeatedly cut things off and said he was only responding during moments of weakness when he needed his ego fed.
:-\ just wow!
"He got down on one knee and he said, Tonya, would you not marry me? Because I love you too much to make you unhappy. I know what's in your heart. Be true to yourself, Tonya. Follow your heart," Tonya, The L Word
Cookie
Posts: 1190
Joined: Wed Sep 27, 2017 4:08 pm
United States of America

Re: Problem + Solution

Post by Cookie »

AClue4U wrote: Thu Oct 22, 2020 3:04 pm Your LOs are manipulating you.

You are confused and distraught because they ARE sending mixed messages TO CONFUSE YOU.

They are not being honest about what they're doing - they're not being honest because that would defeat the purpose of their game: you are being emotionally manipulated.

You did not generate these feelings on your own, this is not a self-esteem issue, nor does it mean you are broken or that there is something wrong with you. You are not crazy. You are human and have vulnerabilities that have been *correctly identified and toyed with* by your LOs. You are transparent to them. So stop second guessing yourself. You are being manipulated. You are being victimized. They KNOW you like them, make no mistake about it. And they are playing you.

The solution is to get angry and go ***NO CONTACT***. You have to disarm all the emotional hooks they set up in your brain through subtle seduction/grooming and intermittent reinforcement (aka "hot and cold" behavior - which leads to addiction, which leads to severe and debilitating depression).

Your LO will most definitely make it really hard for you to be done with them and WILL pursue you when you do this. Expect it. They are trying to trap their prey. It is not innocent, so get angry. How dare they.

The more they can make you second-guess yourself and believe in their innocence, the longer this plays out and the longer your life will be one of intense and increasing turmoil. DO NOT second-guess yourself!!! Do them no harm, do not confront them (they will never admit it), just cut yourself off from that relationship.

You are their victim, they are not your victim. So flee, like every victim does when they sense danger. They're certainly not in any hurry to flee from you, unless it's time to play "cold" (you know how it goes... cold right before "hot"). They enjoy tormenting you.

Do not underestimate how wicked, sly and double-faced people can be while appearing completely innocent. You'd be surprised. A lot of evil is hidden through self-deception, so happens unconsciously, but make no mistake: it is willful. They are deceptive monsters. Run and be free. You can do it.
THANK YOU.

And before the lectures start about how this is all about US and our issues and our FOO and so on and so on...YES. It is all about that. And it is those things that led us into this trap. But for some of us, it was a trap set by the LO. There is absolutely no doubt in my mind about that, and I have a mountain of texts, online messages, and now US Mail letters from LO to prove it.

Is it my fault for ever engaging with this person?! 10000% yes. Did that person play on my vulnerabilities and manipulate me?! Also 10000% yes.

The only answer is NO CONTACT. There is no friendship possible, there is no need to replay the "I am a bad person who invited this" soundtrack.

I say this after the huge mistake (taking full responsibility here, yo) of letting LO back into my life--at his insistence/begging--under the guise of a work connection that eventually led me to find a hidden note full of hearts and "I truly value this friendship." IT.WAS.A.TRICK.

They do appear in your life for a reason. And I believe it is to teach us to turn off the "I'm not good enough" button. They ARE that button. And every time we push it, the soundtrack kicks in.

Run and be free. Don’t second guess who they are—or who YOU are. Thanks again for the clarity, AClue4U. @};-
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Fullofregret
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Re: Problem + Solution

Post by Fullofregret »

It's so true. I was literally fine until this manipulative asshole wormed his way in to my life. Yes, I'm a vulnerable person. But that's what these bottom feeders prey on. The mixed signals represent the mask coming on and off.

Oh, and the lies - they'll never come clean. They'll just gaslight you when you call them on it (which I did). Somehow they'll always make it your fault (which is what he did).

I knew something was off from the minute I met him. I was confused initially by the feeling, because it was a mixture of excitement and danger. I bet many of our LOs are on the cluster B spectrum.

He pursued ME. I resisted. He persisted. I caved, because I became an addict. They feed you the drug, knowing exactly what they're doing.

This entire experience has made me question my sanity. I have told him ten times that I don't want to be friends, don't want to hang out, etc. But he pretends like I never said it and/or plays the victim "woe is me" card.

I'm finding escape to be very difficult.
Cookie
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Joined: Wed Sep 27, 2017 4:08 pm
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Re: Problem + Solution

Post by Cookie »

Fullofregret wrote: Mon Oct 26, 2020 12:06 am It's so true. I was literally fine until this manipulative asshole wormed his way in to my life. Yes, I'm a vulnerable person. But that's what these bottom feeders prey on. The mixed signals represent the mask coming on and off.

Oh, and the lies - they'll never come clean. They'll just gaslight you when you call them on it (which I did). Somehow they'll always make it your fault (which is what he did).

I knew something was off from the minute I met him. I was confused initially by the feeling, because it was a mixture of excitement and danger. I bet many of our LOs are on the cluster B spectrum.

He pursued ME. I resisted. He persisted. I caved, because I became an addict. They feed you the drug, knowing exactly what they're doing.

This entire experience has made me question my sanity. I have told him ten times that I don't want to be friends, don't want to hang out, etc. But he pretends like I never said it and/or plays the victim "woe is me" card.

I'm finding escape to be very difficult.
I understand, Full. I'm feeling strong in this new round of no contact. I am getting old and tired and just can't do it anymore.

Want to make it clear that I do think it is ABSOLUTELY up to us and us alone to solve this for ourselves. We cannot be dependent on others (including therapists) to cut these threads for us. That excitement and danger you feel is the intensity that's missing from your healthy attachments.

Your story is exactly mine, and I understand and sympathize with your struggles. Worst addiction ever. I've read a lot about cult behavior and the subtle manipulation of cult leaders on their followers. I can cognitively recognize the predatory behavior, but something about the way it's delivered sucks me in. FOO at work here, for sure.

Again...not absolving the need for self-management. But I disagree that we shouldn't "demonize" the LOs, at least the ones who have come after us. If you are pursued by a psychopath and/or sociopath (I've had both), why on earth would you not want to call them that?! If you see a monster at your door, why shouldn't you say, "Hey, there's a monster at my door!!" And run. I was raised NOT to call bad things bad things--and that's at the root of my limerence.

I love this forum and it has helped bring me to a good point, believe it or not. But the one area where I part ways with the overriding philosophy here is the need to call a spade a spade. I've taught my kids to be strong and have boundaries. But I've also taught them to recognize Cluster B pathologies. It's survival.
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