how bad? my story...

[LongRoad]

Hi

I am new here, been trying to find out what is "wrong" with me lately and came across limerence, which I had never heard of before, but I think describes my state pretty well.

But would really appreciate your opinion and tips to make it stop...

My story:

I recently developed a major crush with my massage therapist/trainer from the spa hotel I usually go to. And I don't know how to make it stop.

I have known her for 3 years now, my SO and I have been going to this spa 1-2 times per year the past years. I am very careful and picky with therapists due to my back and neck spine issues. She does her job very well, so she became my go-to therapist when I am there.

She also does fitness classes and this summer we also took up some group workout sessions with her. I think this got us to talking more privately, I shared some things about me, she also talked about her private life etc.

We were planning on going to the spa some months later and I talked about it with her and she mentioned she does individual training too, in case I want to book her next time. I prefer individual classes, so I did.

And I think it all started to go crazy with this. Between the 2 spa stays I know I thought of her, but not in a romantic way, more like I would like to get to know her better and looked forward to the fitness classes, because we approach workout the same way. Was for sure no obsession at that time.

But I think once I got to the spa the 2nd time I started to see things (that weren't there?) and I went totally crazy...

Looking back, I feel as if I can pin point the moment even. I was waiting for her to pick me up for the first massage, she saw me while she was saying bye to another client and she greeted me with a big smile as soon as she saw me and then said that she had looked forward to me being there. I was like, ok, nice?

The dynamic went on similar as in summer, us talking privately. I usually do not open up to people, at least not that quick, but since we had been talking the last time, and she also said she usually doesn’t talk openly, I dared to ask her some things, just wanted to get to know her better at that stage. She also asked some things about me. Every time we got to know some more about each other and we also started to joke and banter, esp. during the individual training lessons. It felt pretty much like beginning to becoming friends at that stage.

In the last training session I had with her the day before our departure I suddenly realised I may be developing a crush, though. I realised I only had 2 sessions left with her and wouldn't be seeing her anymore and kinda panicked, felt desperate and had thoughts like I would miss her.

Well, while talking we had found out we were going to the same fair (related to our hobbies) in my city (abt 2 hrs from her) the upcoming weekend and I knew I would maybe see her there, but we hadn't arranged to meet or anything.

I was also very confused, esp. because I have been with my SO for 20y and I have never felt like this before. And of course, I didn't want to cheat, this is a no-go for me.

On the last day of my stay at the spa, after abt 10 days of seeing and talking to her almost every day, we exchanged instagram accounts. On her initiative, sort of.
It went like this: at the beginning of the last massage therapy I gave her a thank you card where I had written down my IG account, BUT didn't mention it to her, just gave her the card to say thanks. I didn't want her to feel obliged to follow me or didn't want to ask her to meet at the fair.
But then she said she had been thinking and decided to give me her IG account, and she said this way we maybe see each other at the fair that weekend. At the end of the session she took out her smartphone and said let's connect, so we looked for each other on IG and connected. We then just said bye, till next time and maybe see you at the fair. No commitment or anything.

I was glad she wanted to say hi, I was still not sure where this was going or what was it I was feeling, but felt good to just meet somebody new with whom I had some things in common and looked forward to stay in touch.

To my surprise, the next day at the fair she totally avoided me. Big time. She clearly saw me but turned away whenever she saw me, pretended not to see me, she was there with her friends and it felt so weird, I had the feeling they all had been talking (badly?) about me. I was mobbed (shortly, as I went back to the old school after 2 months) at a new school when I was abt 12, and it felt like being back there. Same looks, same shit. I felt totally lost and confused.

The fair lasted 2 days, on the evening of the 1st one (when she ignored/avoided me) I shared some summary and pictures on Insta and she wrote me and commented on something and asked if I would be going next day. I was like wtf is wrong with you, you ignore me and now you want to know if I will be there? But ok, let's keep it polite, I replied, we texted a couple of sentences more and that was it.

Next day we did say hi once, kinda bumped into each other and probably she didn't have a way out, we talked for a little while, she was smiling and "ok" but at the same time it felt totally ackward and different to the days before. I felt like I wanted to disappear, run away and I had the feeling she did too. All the open kinda natural talk the days before was gone.

Afterwards, we wrote a couple of times on Insta, viewed each other’s stories on IG, but somewhen we stopped communicating and she eventually stopped viewing my stories about 3-4 weeks later. I kept viewing from time to time. I met her a month later at another fair and she avoided me again, even worse than the other fair. Since I had the feeling she didn't want to stay in touch with me and we hadn't been communicating, I didn't tell her I was going there or anything. We just bumped into each other but she (pretended?) she was on a hurry and went away.

Between the 2 fairs I became totally obsessed to understand what had happened. Keep asking myself: Why she had acted so weird and I kept thinking what did I do wrong the last day at the spa? or at the fair? Or in general all the time? why did she suddenly not want to talk to me? Why was she so nice and talkative!! at the spa, sharedso much, if she didn't like me?

After the 2nd encounter I muted her on my IG and thought Ok, let's move on. I realised that I was going crazy, and that I had to stop thinking about her and "seeing" her on IG. That (whatever it was) was going nowhere, I had misread signs, misinterpreted our chats and that was it.

It worked for a while, specially because she was not appearing on my IG in any way, but approx.1 week into me ignoring her (=not showing up on her list of views), she viewed my stories, and I caved in, I viewed hers. I even thought she had wanted me to see it, because it was about workout and something we had talked about. I know, just my brain's fantasy. I looked at her IG for a couple of days (she stopped after 1) and I stopped again.

And this dynamic has now been going on for abt 5 weeks. She ignores me for days, I ignore her for several days, I think I am getting over her and then she suddenly "reappears" in my views, and I go back to square one. Start thinking maybe she is not that angry or she does want to stay in touch.. but then she disappears again. And I go desperate for some days.

In these "down" days I think of her all the time, going over our conversations again and again, tryng to figure out why she got angry (?), what I could have done, or what I can do to solve it. I have been absent at home and not focused at work, it is driving me crazy.

I don’t even know WHY. I am with somebody else, I do not want to cheat and if I think "neutral" about her, she isn't somebody I would be happy with. After the weird actions by her at the fairs and having seen some of her posts/stories, I do not even think we could be friends or anybody I would like to have in my life. Many things do NOT match with my values and my way of living. But I anyway keep thinking she is so nice, cool and unique and would like to get to know her better, spend time with her, talk to her.

I just don’t know how to tell my brain to stop and get over this constant thinking and craving of her liking me in a way.

I know I could block her or hide my stories from her, but I think blocking is very harsh (but keep being afraid that she will do it to me one day...) and hiding stories... what if she finds out, isn't that rude too?

I may go to the spa again and even if I may not book her, my SO may, and keep thinking it may be a bit weird if I have been rude...

It became very long in the end.. if you have been reading till the end, thank you!!!

What is your "diagnostic"?
Any tips that could help me besides NC?

thank you!!!

[L-F]

Welcome to the forum!
LE can drive you crazy right? Your thought patterns sound very similar to mine when I was limerent. We read into everything and over analyse things. As for her behavior, it appears normal to me, she's scrolling and if your posts come up, then she looks. I highly doubt she is searching for you. It's the way IG works, keeps people in the loop. Think of it as a marketing ploy. Allen Carr & John Dicey 'Smart Phone Dumb Phone: Free Yourself from Digital Addiction' gives good insight into how social platforms work.

Keep posting here and again, welcome!

[LongRoad]

hi
thank you for the tip on the book! will have a look at it.

I don't know why she does that, my assumption was, she had muted me and she viewed from time to time because each time she had posted stories I hadn't seen where she commented or shared things we had talked about, or once it was before she visited my city.

I have had many manic thoughts, like that she did it all on purpose to make me think she wanted to be friends and then laugh at me, and stuff like that. I have tried to make up the worst negative fantasies and explanations for her actions, it helps for a while, but then I find myself back to wanting to solve the riddle. Why?

I think this is the question that I go around and around the most.
I never had something like this in my adult life , me hitting it off with somebody and then changing moods from one day to the other like that. And I think this is what I cannot get over with... :-/

I am angry and embarrassed with myself, to let one person have so much control over my state of mind and mood.

[L-F]

The Why question. Can be partly solved in my opinion. perhaps resign yourself to only finding part of the puzzle? That's because it depends on the approach you take. There is no definitive answer IMO. Not enough research and too many angles to attack it from - spiritual, genetic, neurological, psychological, physiological, etc. Take the spirirual approach, a lot of people are okay with meditation but how many resesrch the religious underpinnings? How many people pay attention to the source of information? This, of course, is my opinion, I feel society in general wants quick fixes, wants to be continually entertained, and wants things to soothe their soul all the while completely ignoring their instincts. Limerence can also be viewed as a blessing. Of course, this doesn't help you while you are in the thick of it.

I think this is the question that I go around and around the most.
I never had something like this in my adult life , me hitting it off with somebody and then changing moods from one day to the other like that. And I think this is what I cannot get over with... :-/

I am angry and embarrassed with myself, to let one person have so much control over my state of mind and mood.

I hear you. It's okay, most have felt embarrassed at one point or another, I know I have! Yes, I agree, it does feel like a loss of control over our emotions, mind & body (heart).


As for the book, John Dicey is going to write one about Limerence - the easy way out. But if you read enough of any Easy Way Out books you'll hear things repeated over and over. The books all relate to addiction, yet each subject has its logical arguments. So, one may find the 'pattern' inherent in any of the books useful. In short, the books focus on logic. For example, how can limerence create a dopaminergic effect and simultaneously be painful? Like smoking, it gives the illusion of pleasure yet leaves the smoker feeling trapped. Limerence is nothing but an illusion. I don't care to know what part of the brain lights up when you think pleasurable thoughts (thoughts of LO) because no research has been done on a LIMERENT brain, and telling me that parts of the brain lights up when thinking sexy thoughts is like telling me white wine goes well with fish. See, so many angles to take. Lots of information here, but do you know the best source of information? Yourself. Only you know how limerence impacts you. You will figure it out in time.

[David]

Welcome

Sounds like limerence - driven by the intermittent reinforcement you describe so clearly that is so common with addiction. Interesting how social media reinforces this with what LF describes. SM is the devil's food for limerence.

We each have to work our own way through limerence. The main thing I observe, is that for people that choose to self reflect and do some inner work, significant grow occurs. I could give lots of other advice here, im not sure I would have taken much of this myself 13 years ago whilst I was wallowing in my own early days of limerence.

[David]

I don't care to know what part of the brain lights up when you think pleasurable thoughts (thoughts of LO) because no research has been done on a LIMERENT brain, and telling me that parts of the brain lights up when thinking sexy thoughts

I think the lady (the name Fisher comes to mind) involved with one of the early online dating sites did some fMRI scans on a few people who had fallen in love. the study was tiny - around 15 people so not really that significant, You are correct though, these people were likely not limerent, more New Relationship energy however, there may be parallels between the psychosis of early love and the psychosis of limerence.

Found a youtube of her talking about this topic- here name is Helen fisher. Study was on 17 people and published in 2005. Link to paper here

https://www.themantic-education.com/ibp ... sher-2005/

And TedX talk

[Zsababy]

I don't have any solutions, but my first thought is about how you said you were "mobbed" (I assume this is a kind of bullying) at school and this experience at the fair was like that. Perhaps you could start with some kind of healing for that initial traumatic experience. Maybe that's why you are fixating on solving the riddle of "why".

Maybe journalling out your feelings &/or seeing a therapist would help.

[Zsababy]

As for the weirdness, I think it may be because you're unavailable and this other person has mixed feelings, or is confused or ambivalent, etc. They probably just don't know what to think, what your intentions are and so forth and so are doing a push-pull thing. (If that makes sense). Maybe they told their friends this and they advised to stay away as you are spoken for and this triggered your memories of school days.

[L-F]

You are correct though, these people were likely not limerent, more New Relationship energy however, there may be parallels between the psychosis of early love and the psychosis of limerence.

I would find the research fascinating. I would like to think different parts of the brain light up to explain obsessivity though.
NRE is, I'm assuming, reciprocal. Or perhaps it only impacts certain PDs? I'm not sure if anyone has dissected what is normal and what is not. In other words, does everyone in a new relationship experience NRE? Come to think about it, do those who lack empathy experience NRE? I would say empathy is a component of the NRE experience, meaning NRE is perhaps not selfish in nature.
I'm also assuming those who lack empathy can experience limerence - think stalkers/murderers. So in this sense, they would be different no? David, do you know any studies done on stalkers' brains?

All very fascinating. It would be interesting to see the parallels between the psychosis of LE & NRE.

[David]

This seems to be the only study on fmri and stalkers. Personally I think they’re barking up the wrong tree with brain scan imaging and neuroscience to try and work out what’s going on. It’s a very crude way of telling us which part of the brain lights up in these conditions, but beyond that little else.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/16382848/