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Fired Therapist

A place for those new to this site. The more experienced users of this site tend to frequent the members only section more.
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L-F
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Re: Fired Therapist

Post by L-F »

Zsababy wrote: Mon Mar 13, 2023 7:20 am
Asha999 wrote: Sat Mar 11, 2023 5:13 am Its b. So my therapist life coach dresses me down for letting fear guide my life choices, that I will never know love until i risk something, that i can never be certain about people and am a manipulator who only has relationships when I am controlling of other people.

For my part I have these issues because of a genuine lack of unconditional love as a child or adult. to be told that I am unwilling to take risks to find it or manipulative at this juncture...like it seems cruel and unusual.
For a coach/therapist who has hooked up or partnered with a client to talk about controlling people in relationships is some serious horseshit. She's projecting. (If I read all this correctly; I'm bad about skimming).

I understand choosing relationships that are secure because of having a rocky emotional past; that's not manipulative, that's choosing wisely, IMHO.
talk about skimming... I totally missed the part where the T partnered with a client.
Zsababy wrote: Mon Mar 13, 2023 7:07 am D'oh. Sorry I missed the part about deleting the texts. I skimmed; I was so caught up in hating this woman!
Hahaha same!

Safe to say this scenario has us intrigued/disgusted.
"And in the end, we were all just humans…Drunk on the idea that love, only love, could heal our brokenness." ~ F. Scott Fitzgerald
Asha999
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Re: Fired Therapist

Post by Asha999 »

I paid the “coaching” zoom portion of the invoice invoice and zero towards$12,000 in texts. No commentary given other than prior challenging of the texts. We shall see what happens I guess.

As I ruminated in this new topic all weekend I am just now beyond angry… I told this coach who is a self proclaimed expert in trauma healing etc multiple times that I was having a response to my LO that was not normal… that I felt like it was a bipolar reaction. Then I was suffering from some serious anxiety. She literally sent me a message saying I was depressed about my shitty life and my shitty husband a too fearful to live a live of integrity and until I did I would always feel that way. I don’t have the texts but if she wants to go toe to toe with me I’d invite anyone to judge her professional conduct based on what I was saying. She doesn’t give a rip but she coaches some very powerful people who are friends and acquaintances of mine. I have a lot of shame in what I revealed to her, but I was a person in a crisis of sorts. Made much much worse by someone denying my attempts to diffuse it.

The shitshow went even further because I was introduced to this coach by a mutual friend who I confessed I had feelings for the LO and that friend parroted the coach’s advice (the coach is truly her guru). . That friend called me to check in and I said I wasn’t in a space to talk but might be in the future perhaps. Meaning literally that… this friend does the same thing pressuring me to declare my love to LO and leave my marriage. I don’t know when or if I want to talk to her because I’m trying to stick with recovery and not do anything stupid. I don’t need people pushing me to big risks. Anywho she comes back that I’m passive aggressive and manipulative… exact same thing coach told me Friday when I told her I’m limerent and trying to slow my roll. I sent a couple text messages indicating I was really angry about being called passive, aggressive and manipulative when I’m trying to talk to somebody about my life exploding. I then called to explain Limerence to my friend and what had been going on, and that I was frustrated been told I’m fearful when I’m trying to be disciplined in the face of some serious stuff. And some thing I’ve got under control just barely. My friend told me she never again wants to receive a text message that I’m upset with her because it bothered her enough to be a distraction at her kids soccer game and she has boundaries. Same friend who when I told her I had a same-sex attraction to the LO and I didn’t know what to do responded by saying well thank you I really been looking for emotional intimacy in our friendship. And then didn’t contact me for two months.

I lost my mind. I don’t understand how you meet a conversation of somebody trying to explain they have been dealing with an ocd disorder and bipolar type emotions by saying you violated my boundaries with sending a couple text messages. And these text messages literally said I’m not sure when I’m going to be able to talk to you again because you’re not helping me and the way I need to be helped when I am in a really bad space and you’re not hearing me on it.

I mean, I know the saying that if you look around and you’re surrounded by assholes you’re the asshole. Pretty sure I’m not the asshole right now.

All of this snapped me back into executive functioning mode. Talk about boundaries. It’s unbelievable how someone hammering on you about how you’re traumatized, fearful, lying, etc etc over and over can break down your cognition… particularly in parallel with the experience of limerence that feels like you are insane. The challenge now is that I did what it seems like a lot of us do… live a kind of controlled existence in response to an LE… I chose a safe and ultimately poorly compatible spouse. But now I’ve had two major LE experiences that were destructive. I built my way out of the first one right into this next one 20 years later. All the things I’ve been working on with my coach… being guarded with people, rational to a fault, not being vulnerable or feeling deeply. That was good work. But it also is high risk with recurring limerence rooted in trauma.
L-F
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Re: Fired Therapist

Post by L-F »

I feel for you Asha.
I totally get the saying that if you look around and you’re surrounded by assholes you’re the asshole. And no, I don't think you've been the asshole. At the same time, I do believe healing comes when one learns not to point the finger. Some may view this statement as victim blaming and that's okay. That would be their perception, just as your coach and friend have their own perception of your situation. I'm not saying what they did was okay, what im saying is that they will have to own their own shit. Recently I had this robust discussion with a friend who I thought was a friend because she couldn't and wouldn't see/hear my pain but instead argued with me (although she didn't view it as an argument), but it took this robust discussion to see she really was a friend and felt safe & strong enough to be brutally blunt with me. Not something I felt was needed at the time but was the only way that worked, almost bootcamp style. She basically held the mirror up to me and wouldn't let me off the hook. thank God she did because it gave me a new perspective and allowed me to set aside my self-indulgent pain (self-pity) to see how my narrative of others was keeping me locked in pain and in the victim mindset.
My new mantra from that discussion, that she kept repeating is "people will do what people will do"... What your coach and friend does, will be what they will always do until they own their own shit. It's not personal.
There will be others they treated and continue to treat that way.

I do question whether your coach disclosed information to your friend given similar wording they used.

I don't blame you for feeling angry, I would feel angry too if this happened to me. I'm glad you feel safe enough to share this experience. Anxiety sucks.
"And in the end, we were all just humans…Drunk on the idea that love, only love, could heal our brokenness." ~ F. Scott Fitzgerald
L-F
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Re: Fired Therapist

Post by L-F »

In short, some people are fuckerovers. I was complaining to my friend why I was the target of people who fuckedmeover. What was I doing wrong to attract them? She simply explained 'people will do what people do'. I had no say in the matter. I wasn't attracting any one sort of person. I just had to learn that people will do what people will do, and that I had no idea what their dreams and aspirations were.
I'll give you an example, one person (licensed social worker) slept with her client and she disclosed this to me to 'unburden' herself. Because I shared I wasn't ethically comfortable with this information she went behind my back to poison my reputation with an organization that I was lined up with. This cost me a future with this organization. I didn't do anything to seek revenge. I never saw karma happening either. I assumed she was a fuckerupper who got away with it and that somehow I deserved it.

I didn't deserve it. I carried that pain of being fuckedover for almost 10 years. The same way I carried the pain of LO fuckingwithme (emotionally) and abusing her position of power and knowledge of human behavior.

None of it is personal. There will always be fuckerovers in this world.

As for the person who slept with her client? how do I know she doesn't wish and dream of having a lifelong partner like I have? How do I know she doesn't wish for the things I have? I don't. It's none of my business. Her karma has nothing to do with me and everything to do with her behavior. I hope you'll find some sense of peace in the above. Your coach will have her own problems and unfulfilled dreams, and perhaps, that's because she has the shitty life?
"And in the end, we were all just humans…Drunk on the idea that love, only love, could heal our brokenness." ~ F. Scott Fitzgerald
Asha999
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Re: Fired Therapist

Post by Asha999 »

So the coach did 100% discuss me with the friend. The accusation was verbatim and frankly didn’t make sense in the context… I think my friend went to the coach to tell her I had upset her and the coach who I just fired used those words.


As you say though, it’s neither here nor there. That’s their stuff. I got accused of a lot of stuff with the friend and none of it was fair if accurate. I find this all just odd in the contexts if victimhood and ownership you’re describing.

Knowing about limerence and understanding it and trying to explain it is brand new to me. To me it’s been a way to stop being a victim and be accountable for my actions. I’m admitting I was behaving like a nut, that I am taking steps to control it and trying to be clear about what I need. Like do you meet someone who says “I think I’ve become an alcoholic” and say… if you just divorced your husband it would all be better? I mean it might be but triage a little here.

I never really recognized my past hard experiences as trauma. My (terrible) coach identified that and I’ve tried to accept that new narrative without feeling like a victim. I was totally a victim of out of control feelings of limerence, but it’s my responsibility to do the work to overcome it. And part of that is pushing back on people trying very hard to dismiss that this problem exists (on the day I fired her and sent a description of liemeace the coach told me I’m trying to diagnose being human and she doesn’t parse symptoms but knows all about OCD and addiction but knows I’m just not saying this all to manipulate and avoid the real work).

I dunno I guess it’s an interesting balance of acceptance, accountability and victimhood to admit you have a problem you are trying to overcome. It’s rooted in really bad experiences (trauma) and limerence is traumatic in its own right… but I hope it will be possible to accept my limitations and triggers and advocate to be heard and understood without it being this freaking messy. I had to figure this out on my own despite trying to get help from a professional, I won’t be a “victim” of somebody else forming a narrative of what is happening that I know to be untrue ever again. Or them sending me a bill for $12k in text message of me trying to explain my position and apprehension and issues repeatedly.

I appreciate your sharing the people will be as they are sentiment. There’s the initial emotional f reaction to it and there’s that acceptance after. It’s like how I’m dealing with LO to an extent who I can’t get away from, I can only control my thoughts and actions (now that I’ve identified the problem and have my thoughts back under control). If I lose control again I need to get out and not be a victim.
L-F
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Re: Fired Therapist

Post by L-F »

The more I read, the more I dislike your coach.

You are doing the work.
You are not a nut.
Limerence is a thing.
Your coach was/is emotionally manipulative in my eyes, and so too your friend.

I'm glad you figured it out for yourself and I'm sorry your Coach doesn't have the ego to allow her to learn.
All people in the helping industry should be open enough to learn from their clients, because how else do they grow?
"And in the end, we were all just humans…Drunk on the idea that love, only love, could heal our brokenness." ~ F. Scott Fitzgerald
David
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Re: Fired Therapist

Post by David »

Sadly, there are far too many dangerous and unethical coaches, counsellors and psychotherapist out there who are projecting their own emotional baggage onto their clients.

My beef with coaching is that nearly all of them have done no deep psychological work. By this, I mean long-term individual one-to-one psychotherapy, so they really understand the shadow, the projections and the unconscious mind and how it works.

It took me years to find a decent leadership coaching course that was run by a credible psychotherapeutic Institute. I also decided to train as a psychotherapist before entering the world of coaching as I wanted a sound psychological foundation to my coaching work.

I am also so mindful how easily it would be to take advantage of a vulnerable client who has significant trauma around fees and what is going to be charged for. In my own practice, I make it very clear if I’m going to charge extra for emails text and WhatsApp messages which I very rarely do as most, if not all my clients don’t abuse the support I provide in between sessions. I think it comes down to good healthy boundaries between the client and the practitioner, transparency around the fee structure, and making the shadow around money which most of us struggle with as conscious as possible.

Thanks for posting your experience here as I think there’s something really important for everybody on this forum to consider before they engage with a so-called professional practitioner.
Purchase the 24 part video series on overcoming limerence - see https://limerence.thinkific.com/courses/healing-limerence
L-F
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Re: Fired Therapist

Post by L-F »

David wrote: Tue Mar 14, 2023 1:18 am I think there’s something really important for everybody on this forum to consider before they engage with a so-called professional practitioner.
Highlighting above because I feel it's easy to label professionals after the fact, but what scares me is that it could be literally any professional. it could be the one you use David, or the reader who has engaged a therapist. It's so darn scary!

How does one ask their Therapist about how aware/conscious they are? Psychotherapy doesn't exclude therapists from unethical or unaware shadow behavior. Just take my LO who had been practicing for years and did 8 years of study and one-to-one work with their own therapist/supervisor.
"And in the end, we were all just humans…Drunk on the idea that love, only love, could heal our brokenness." ~ F. Scott Fitzgerald
Asha999
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Re: Fired Therapist

Post by Asha999 »

To further the discussion of qualifications, subconscious and just being very careful about all of this. When I hired my coach 3 years ago, that is what I wanted… a coach. I was transitioning out of an executive role and thinking about next steps. But… life happens. This coach was also one who pushed to “go deeper.” As I’ve said in the novels written on here I’ve had a lot of stuff. But I’ve worked through it and was pretty good. But I’d be a juicy client for someone wanting to tinker in someone else’s trauma.

I think things in this coaching relationship went way off the rails when the scope exploded. Part was due to circumstances of the LO emerging and part I think was attributable to the coach messing around in places in my head she had no business or qualifications to be. There was clearly a lot of projection of my situation of falling in love with my coach to her relationship with her wife (she introduced us to have us talk and prep me for my confessional). She was licking her chops at my “awakening.”

Almost immediately when limerence started I told her I was having feelings of inability to control constant thoughts re LO, responses to her that felt bipolar (the elation and hurt of uncertainty), anxiety. I also had a really bizzare experience of dissociation in a training session with LO when a seemingly minor event that triggered a past trauma occurred. This untrained life coach was way out of her depth. But she kept pushing her narrative while I was trying repeatedly to indicate I thought more was at play. She sent me a bunch of stuff about repressed trauma, generational trauma, trauma, trauma trauma. Which is not incorrect but if you’re introducing a lot of trauma work to someone who is reporting these symptoms you better know what you’re doing. She was also unbelievably unavailable for two to four week stretches… hence all the text messages that she answered but never really discussed at length. I recall her telling me I had never known anyone who loved me without condition and then dropping off the earth for 3 weeks. Yeah that was a lot to leave me to deal with… immediately prior to my meeting with my LO. She of course also adds she herself loves me and will be there for me. Like the layers of how messed up this is just don’t end. I’ll wonder for a long time if her “trauma bombing” me led to me acting like a traumatized person much more than the trauma itself, which I had under control for 20+ years. I was also getting a lot of pressure from her about my needs to be more vulnerable.

In retrospect I knew I had major stuff going on. But it was of an embarrassing and very sensitive nature. I felt safe with the coach because she knew me back as my high functioning self and the history and lead up. Starting over with someone brand new to say hey I’m here and have a inappropriate homosexual attraction and feel bipolar…after spending 25 years being very high functioning after enduring a lot of trauma and stress, yeah I didn’t want to go present that narrative somewhere.

This coach IMO doesn’t understand the depths of her projection of her own stuff or desired outcomes for me. She also got more aggressive, like way aggressive, in pushing it when she knew enough to know I was weak. She constantly talks to me about my being the most traumatized person she’s ever encountered… but like I never acted like that until under her care and when I came to believe I was broken beyond repair at this point.

I’m out of town away from my LO. I’m 100% fine. I had a moderate case of limerence I quickly brought into reasonable control once I saw and understood what it is. My coach was projecting her desired outcome for my life on to me and using all her training and tools to do it, including invoking mutual friends. I should have told her to back the f up a long time ago.

Don’t let anybody other than yourself near your subconscious is my takeaway. Or if you do extensively balance that with talking to others as well so that you have your own narrative and can’t allow a “professional” to superimpose theirs over yours in times of turmoil. And don’t let coaching go beyond coaching… performance improvement sure. Help in assessing trauma, true mental health issues, etc… nope. Particularly if they reject that a crisis of sorts maybe be happening. I’m a pretty rock solid oeeson, it’s crazy this could happen in a few months.

I sincerely appreciate the work you did in understanding all of this on a psychological and physiological level before undertaking your career David.
Last edited by Asha999 on Tue Mar 14, 2023 7:47 pm, edited 4 times in total.
Asha999
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Re: Fired Therapist

Post by Asha999 »

One more note: coaching via text message is garbage. It’s very easy to not see or hear what is being said or misinterpret. And you’re not getting the emotion of the subject. It should not be done other than as an emergency measure. And if it goes on for very long with lots of things happening… the practitioner is way behind in the evolution of what’s happening and how the subject has integrated it or what work they are doing. It’s like coaching or therapy in cliff notes.
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